Quote:
Bentirran, I'd like you to tell me what part of that you'd be OK with if it was your home. Would you simple ask him to stop trying to smash your skull in with the crowbar while you curl up in ball and cry at his feet? Seriously, what would you do?


I don't think this was part of the scenario I have put forward. This was not described in the BBC Scotland News report. From the rest of the replies to the specific scenario, I guess I can conclude the end result is the following if the same scenario was carried out in most US states,

Bay Guy - 'Center punched' - shot to death.

Good Guy - depending on which side of the door step or outside/inside property boundary the the 'Bad Guy' fell when he was 'center punched', either facing no criminal actions or first or second degree murder charges (dependent of which state of course this scenario is being carried out). Of course if 'Good Guy' is now facing a murder charge now gets described as 'bad guy'.

No great shakes though because in the grand scheme of things in the US we now have 2 bad guys - 1 dead, the other now facing the electric chair.

As described in the Scottish incident, I don't think at any point Mr Ali described himself as being in any mortal danger, the bottle was thrown at the father in law of the accused Mr Ali. (Mr Ali said he fired the air rifle to scare Mr Goldie - Mr Ali was not assaulted by the bottle throwing incident it would have been his father in law). As described in the BBC Scotland report it was not known whether any charges were filed against Mr Goldie (Bad Guy), there is of course nothing in the report also to suggest why Mr Goldie (Bad Guy) was attempting to enter Mr Ali's Father in Laws property also. This is an important consideration in trying to judge the actual motives of Mr Goldie. The BBC report does not mention the motives of Mr Goldie, who started the incident was. This would be speculation on everyones part as to whether Mr Goldie was indeed the 'bad guy' as insinuated by the news report.

Mr Ali was charged because he had used a firearm with the potential to kill the person he had aimed the weapon at. Mr Ali's explanation that he discharged the firearm as a means of self defense was not given. He was not in any mortal danger and had admitted this. Self defense argument was not given. Under Scottish law he had therefore committed a firearms offense in order to commit assault. In the reported BBC Scotland story the Judge had also taken into account that Mr Ali had been provoked. As Mr Ali had pleaded guilty to this offense under provocation I doubt whether Mr Ali will be jailed, but rather given community service. But we will have to wait and see.

Ironraven, to actually answer your point directly. If I was attacked in my own home with someone armed with a crowbar, I would attempt to fight of the attacker with the due force required to stop that attack, if it did mean killing the assailant in order to save my life or anyones else's life then so be it. To assume there is no right under Scottish law for a means of Self defense, then you are totally mistaken. To kill someone to stop other criminal acts such as burglary, theft, property damage under Scottish law would be considered murder. Human lives are not considered secondary to property ownership because it cheapens the value of human life itself.







Edited by bentirran (05/10/07 04:43 PM)