Originally Posted By: Misanthrope
Instinctive?? Like the hay maker punch that every dumb-arsed bar brawler thinks is going to lay out his opponent?

We were discussing proficiency. If you honestly feel that you can develop muscle memory and technique within two hours, I bow down to your mastery, Sifu.

Where's your free hand? Open stance, closed stance? How do you strike at the off knee on an advancing foe? Or are you striking at his leading leg? Strike the knife hand? Do you think your opponents going to extend his lead that much if you have a stick or baton in your hand?

I'm also assuming that your opponent is the aggressor, which assumes he/she is no stranger to sudden violence. You seem to have automatically assumed superior training or technique over your adversary. I've got almost 25 years of training under my belt, and I would never be that arrogant. I've had my arse kicked by the best!!!

Years ago, while studying under Fred Degerberg, I attended a demonstration done by Prof. Remy Presas. Every time someone thought they had an opening, they were trapped. It wasn't until afterwards that we realized every opening we saw was a trap.

I agree that any improvised weapon would be better than empty hand when the women and children go to bed, but nothing else you posted makes any sense to me.

You feed me someone with two hours of training, and even now, middle-aged, overweight and out-of-training, I'll eat their lunch.

M


OK who the heck are you? Your flaming sarcasm is misplaced and unnecessary. I don't understand your venom. The question was asked about Batons. My position is that they are useful, not that they make you superman. Just like any other weapon. It's not brain surgery. Most people know how to move, and they know how to swing a stick. You sound like one of these types that believes if you don't train it every day and become some sort of ninja you might as well hang it up.

I'm not talking about being able to take on a grand master like yourself. You make things way too complicated. Stances, what bull. In the street - however you are standing is how you fight, you don't have time to worry about stances. You might have lots of sport "fight" training but your comments show a strong lack of street experience. I'd bet you are a black belt point sparrer, and you probably have picture perfect Kata. Goody for you.

Yes, I can teach someone to keep their off hand in front of them as a guard in two hours. It's not that hard. I'm not worried about some sort of surgical precision strike against a specific leg. Hit whichever one is reachable. Street confrontations aren't planned out. And it doesn't take that long to defang the snake. If someone can hit a baseball, they can hit an extended hand/arm as it comes towards them. It doesn't have to look pretty, it just has to work. Hit the hand or arm with a metal stick, and chances are he will drop it.

You assume that the aggressor has much more skill than he most likely does. Look at the statistics. Most bad guys are not trained, and are not that skilled. Again, I didn't say you would dance with a grand master, I said the baton was a useful tool.

And yes go ahead, throw names around. I don't care who you have trained with. That's not the point. You are totally correct, if this person is going up against a grand master with "almost 25 years of training under their belt", then they are in for a bad time. But they will have a better chance, small as it may be, with a baton, than with just their hands. Just because they haven't trained for 25 years doesn't mean they should lay down and die because the other guy might be better than they are.


"Combatives is 90% attitude and 10% technique"---Kelly McCann/Jim Grover