Originally Posted By: Bingley

On a pertinent note, the course I took emphasizes what we can't do/should stay away from. This annoyed some people for whom this meant they would not be able to use the training they received in other spheres of their lives (firefighting, military, etc.). But it makes sense to me because CERT has to work for the lowest common denominator.

If I have to sum up my feelings, this is what I have to say. From what I've seen, CERT is a work in progress, and I'm sure its definition and interaction with the professional responders will change as it develops.

By the way, someone earlier mentioned that CERTs could haul lumber. That's kind of a surprise to me, and it actually sounds to me like outside of what CERT does. But maybe this is a reflection of the differences in training.

One final thought. I don't get why CERT puts so much emphasis on documentation. We have lots of forms to fill out, and we have to fill them out for the victims we treat in disasters, the houses we search, etc. There's gotta be something legal going on. Pete mentions that searchers should have a criminal background check, otherwise they cannot be trusted to go through houses with valuables after a disaster. I wonder whether this is a way to address this concern without going through the expenses of a background check.

Pete: for examples of CERT actually doing stuff, see "CERT in Action" on the Citizen Corps website: <http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/certinaction/index.shtm>.


It goes back to the premise of CERT, do the greatest good for the greatest number (and then move on). I think alot of people resist that notion on a personal level - both because their needs may go unaddressed, and because they don't want an objective unemotional decision to be made about allocation of resources after a disaster. Most of the folks in CERT get that, but not everyone.

Yes, CERTs can haul lumber, such as to a cribbing site to effect rescue, or on request of the FD to crib or bridge a fire hose. Hauling lumber is a matter of picking up and putting it down where its needed. Its akin to filling and stacking sandbags - it makes sense if you have someone knowledgeable about where and how to stack sandbags to prevent water incursion. What you do with the lumber may depend: are you without first responders, but extracting an injured person from beneath a collapsed wall? Is the scene safe? CERT says, go ahead and crib and get the person out of there. If the FD is there, drop your lumber, get out of the way, and await additional instructions. You may have saved everyone valuable time by hauling lumber to where its needed, but you might waste the time away if you get in the way or attempt a rescue outside your training.

Paperwork / documentation. There does seem to be lots of it, because rescue situations are involved, and CERT anticipates that you may be involved in dozens of rescue situations before first responders arrive. Things not documented will be forgotten. Every house that your CERT team ventures into to check for injured has to be documented - or the first responders will have to do it again. Every victim with injuries should be documented, or the EMTs and ERs will have to start from scratch understanding their patients. Competent searchers and competent medical rescue can save first responders precious, live-saving time. Ad hoc or untrained CERTs who go cowboy and go out and do alot of SAR but don't document their path through their neighborhood will leave the arriving IC with a dilemma: do I send fire fighters out to re-do the SAR in an area, or do I use them to continue the SAR in another, unexplored area? Documentation is key: a CERT leader is responsible for ensuring that they make an effective light SAR, such that victims aren't left undetected in rooms, or garages, or underneath partially collapsed structures. And - they have to document it, as best they can.

When you finished CERT, did you print out an area map of your neighborhood, and document the location of gas and water shut offs, electrical lines, and possibly the location of the elderly, MDs, heavy equipment operators etc etc? In Washington State they have a great program called Map Your Neighborhood which dovetails with CERT training really well: go door to door, explain your interest, and that you want to organize the neighborhood to ensure everyone can be accounted for and assisted after a disaster. You document the shut offs, meet your neighborhoods, and tell them what to expect - knock on the door for starters, to make sure they are ok. I did this for the surrounding 2 blocks, and it was an eye opener - most neighbors were very gracious, many thought I and my brother (a neighbor) bordered on the slightly nuts, and a few took us to be akin to door to door salemen, and shut the door on us. Interesting bit, when I told them that in the event of a serious disaster such as a major EQ, we would be marking the outside of each structure with the code indicating that it had been searched or not (you all saw the search documentation protocol in Katrina), at least a dozen took signficant issue with that - "don't mark up my house!"

Anyway, back to CERT relevance: you keep the neighborhood map, you document your searches, and when the FD arrives, you hand it to the IC (better yet, your neighborhood IC hands it to the incoming FD IC, along with triage and medical reports etc etc), and you provide a debrief on the extent of searches, and what areas weren't fully searched, and probably will require another look. You tell them where you found victims moved to triage, you tell them where you left victims beneath rubble, and you tell them where the deceased are. Probably most important, you've documented your search, you are able to relate this to actual street addresses, and by the exterior markings you left on the front door or outer structure. The FD can deploy rescuers where needed. What happens next is up to the IC, but most will look at your work and consider it accomplished, and deploy resources elsewhere as first priority. Because you have been comparing map to map, and the IC is able to mark off areas on his map as if (for the most part) his FFs did teh search. Or so our local FD Lt told us during CERT training.

That's the ideal anyway, but seldom the reality with CERT. I've never seen a local CERT train to assess a neighborhood situation after a disaster: I think it would be a good training exercise after the final mock training in the CERT training.