Jeff and Martin,

I dont have issue with the legitimate hard luck cases that are trying to improve themselves the problem is they are the deep deep exception. As I said before, those that disagree are the few that worked hard, made good decisions, and still got dinged. Just as Martin said 7/10 reject the offer for intelligent assistance.

At this point I am not even sure what we are going back and fourth over.

My contention is the ongoing support system for those that see no purpose in trying to excel in life OR those that perpetually make bad decisions and fall back into the social safety net. It's like telling someone they need to lose weight while I bring them a whopper value meal. I fully agree with your dislike for the welfare system not because I feel like we need more but because I feel like it is being used in a shotgun approach instead of sniper rifle approach.

A huge theme of this discussion has been the ability to get a job. Imagine for a minute if the fedgov didnt have to spend all the money it does on widespread safety nets and could reduce the tax rate. More people like me, a small business owner, could hire employees with what I spend in taxes and consumer would have more money to save and spend. Yeah, I just jumped two feet first into the political realm, feel free to delete but I cant help to believe that the majority of our issues could be resolved by teaching more personal responsibility and conceptual preparedness for life and reduce the burden on the economy of social entitlement funding.