Originally Posted By: ironraven
Originally Posted By: scafool
(I mean besides responding with completely uncontrolled and heavily armed paranoia)


OK, I know I'm about to get a mouthful of something nasty, but I'll bite....

Based on your statement, you make the assumption that anyone who carries is (a) paranoid, (b) not in control of themselves, and (c) heavily armed. I'll take exception to all of the above. This isn't about politics. This is about mindset. One path leads ultimately to becoming a serf or a refugee. The other... is my path.

Paranoia is a specific psychological condition, and while I know it is not your intent to slander with this term, it is insulting. To the average person who can't be bothered to have 72 hours of supplies on hand, those of us who have 120 hours, or 240 hours, or just a month's worth of supplies are "paranoid". If believing that someone other than your self is ultimately responsible for your safety is paranoid, then I'm not sure why you are here. I'm not being nasty, but I have to ask that. It doesn't matter if we are talking getting lost in the woods, deciding to leave before a hurricane, or getting taken out by a meth head who wants the five bucks in cash you are carrying- all of those are real situations, and if not avoidable, failing to prepare for how to counter them is at best shortsighted, and more likely just ingorance in action.

By saying people who chose to be armed are not in control of their actions is very insulting, and shows you don't know much about people who practice any form of martial art, be it armed or unarmed hand to hand, bows, or firearms. To use any of them effectively, you need to be in control of yourself. The only way to beat discipline is luck.

Or perhaps you are thinking not so much of a random beserker, but of someone who flaunts laws. I have no respect for that type of person. My employer has a no weapons policy. Our parking area is not the most secure location. As a result, I choose not to carry anything heavier than a Swiss Army knife at or to work. It is not desirably, but it is the way things are. When my vehicle was down, I added a small can of pepper spray which stayed in my pack during the day, and that was it. When I used to carry regularly, I would not carry in a bar; when I used to drink regularly, I didn't carry period. I ask you if that is the action of a random beserker who is not in control of his actions?

As for heavily armed, I'm sorry, but that is a silly term. To a person with bare hands, someone with a rock is armed. Two rocks (one for throwing, one for smashing) in heavily armed when all you have is ten fingers.

Now, you do talk about avoidance. So we don't go out at night. We let the park become a dealing ground and crack house, and keep the kids out of it. Those of us who's socioeconomic situation gives them the luxury of avoiding bad parts of town do so, and if you can't, sucks to be you. Avoidance and situational awareness prevent walking into ambushes. But they can also make you a target. A "crazy" can see it two ways- as a threat to his status, or a sign telling the world you are prey. The really crazy, you can't avoid them if they want to play with you.

Sorry, I'd rather accept responsibility for myself, and be able to assist those around me. If that makes me paranoid in your eyes, then allow me to counter with this. It makes me a free man in my eyes, and the master of my own destiny. I have options other than running away or begging on my knees, just like I have options other than freezing to death or waiting on my roof for the helos to come. Sure, those options are open to me if they are the best ones, but I can now chose. Only small children, subjects and slaves have to rely on someone else to take care of them, and all are at the mercy of that "protector".


Read my comments again without putting any words in my mouth.
Then instead of getting all bug eyed think about what I actually said.

In most cases being armed would not have helped the victims, and having a gun in your pocket would only have given you a heavy pocket.
If somebody with a knife in their hand is within 20 feet of you and wants you dead, a gun in a holster is not fast enough to matter.
Even if you have your gun out you likely won't get on target and fire before they are cutting you into pieces.
You would need to have it out, aimed and safety off before they took a single step your way.
(and in that case you should be yelling at them very loudly to drop the knife and lie on their belly or you will shoot them, and shoot them if they don't do just that)

Having a pistol handy certainly would not have helped anybody hit by the Texas Tower Sniper.
He was able to keep selecting targets and firing at them with a high powered telescopic sighted rifle for over an hour and a half from the top of that tower.
(he was the first of the real mass murder shooters by the way)

As for cleaning up druggie parks.
There are ways to do that. It takes community involvement and police assistance.
The Charles Bronson Big Gun fantasy simply wouldn't work.
It might make for an exciting movie, but in reality it would just get you shot.

And about the word paranoid. Yes it is a psychological term and I wish people would look it up.
paranoia


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May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.