I've spent some time in the surviual forum and have put together a righteous bug out bag that sits in my car, ready for action. But I want to play with my new things, test them out -- so I've decided to take the family camping.

Background -- I've never been camping in my life, I'm 42, overweight and out of shape, and hate bugs. But I have two young sons with a lot of enthusiasm and I work from home so I have the time to put in. Plus the wife, who'd rather be camping at the Holiday Inn, has agreed to join our adventure. We've decided to start with car-side camping in a Maryland state park on the Eastern Shore and see how that goes. I want to practice making fires and building shelters, for one thing.

I've found articles on REI.com and elsewhere about how to choose tents, sleeping bags and so on. But I don't know which companies make the better items, and I'd rather pay a bit more for the better equipment, then start out with crap and work my way up. For instance, the choose lists tell me we probably want down-filled, 20+ degree sleeping bags, but not which companies I should be looking at. There was a hat thread on the survival forum that distilled down to "buy a Tilley", and since I needed a hat, I used that to buy a T4 Tilley which has been perfect so far. I'd really like to find more threads like that for tents, sleeping bags, sleeping pads, lanterns -- all the stuff we're going to need.

Any advice?

Thanks in advance.

What I do is scan places like Sportsman's Guide, Sierra Trading Post, REI Outlet, and Campmor for stuff in my price range then check the associated reviews at www.thebackpacker.com, www.backpacking.net and www.trailspace.com.

Another source for helping make decisions is the Gear and Other Hardware forum over on Outdoors-Magazine.com. Do a search for tents, sleeping bags, etc and find out what people think of the gear they use.

As for person favorites of mine, I like Mountainsmith, Guide Gear, and Alps Mountaineering stuff.

It's easy to get overwhelmed by all the choices out there. The two basic rules of thumb are:
1. You get what you pay for.
2. The *next* tent/bag/stove will be perfect.

-Blast

Hello digimark....
I'll throw in my two cents on the sleeping pads. I would recommend a Therm-A-Rest brand, self inflating pad. I have the large Trail Comfort pad and it does a pretty good job for me. At 25" wide, it's a little too narrow for my xtra wide body but it works OK.
If your not going to be hiking or packing the pad around you might want to check out the Camp & Comfort series. These are thicker and come in widths up to 30". Of course they are heavier and slightly bulkier, but would no doubt offer a better nights sleep.
Campmor.com currently has some pretty good deals on Therm-A-Rest items.

Just wanted to add this, don't get discouraged if your first night camping is less than comfortable. Camping takes some getting use to and is something that gets easier with experience. If you hang in there you will be glad you tried it. Having two sons to go camping with will make it worth the effort. I think you will have a great time!

Hope this helps,

smitty

There are a lot of good brands out there some will cost more simply because of their name. Almost everything these days is made in a few factories in China, Korea, Vietnam and the Phillipines. Many factories make several brands side by side. So you may be able to choose a less expensive brand and still get quality.

If you are starting out then don't spend too much and find out that you will never use all that gear again. Most REI stores rent tents, sleeping bags and mattresses. That may be a good option.

REI brand tents are a good value, so are their sleeping bags.

Almost every brand mentioned is worth buying. Look for quality in the parts and workmanship. Look for sticky zippers on sleeping bags; avoid these. Make sure the tent has aluminium poles the fiberglass cost less but WILL break more quickly than tha AL which will bend first.

Down is considered superior for sleepin bags for comfort and warmth to weight ratio but if it gets wet it will be useless. Synthetics like Polarguard 3D and Delta are heavier and bulkier but will keep you somewhat warm if wet.

Hi digimark,

To recommend the best manufacturers will certainly get you some really good equipment, but it could be an expensive business. Most of the expensive kit provided by the best manufacturers have essentially designed their kit to be used in the most demanding conditions for very experienced mountaineering types who regard the overall weight of the kit to be key. For example a titanium stove may cost $200 over the cost for the standard version because saving 6 oz is worth it. Good Down kit is expensive because it is lightweight.

High performance tents are made to exacting designs and materials to survive hurricane force winds on the side of Mount Everest. For the very best in tent manufacturers there is Terra Nova, Hilleberg, Vaude, MacPac, Force Ten, Mountain Hardwear, TNF, Exped and Marmot. All of them are excellent manufacturers and I have probably forgotten to list another half a dozen or so others.
The following tents for example will stand up to the most difficult weather conditions (used in expeditions) and will double up for family use. There are expensive though!

http://www.theoutdoorshop.com/Outdoor/ProductDetails.aspx?language=en-GB&product=2228601

http://www.theoutdoorshop.com/Outdoor/ProductDetails.aspx?language=en-GB&product=22222

Sleeping bags are again subject to the cost/performance ratio. The lighter/warmer bags cost a lot more. I would first decide what temperatures you will likely expect and work from there.

Again the best manufacturers are Marmot, Rab and PHD designs for the very best. (very good expedition kit) with TNF and Mountain Hardware and Mountain Equipment being superb also.

http://www.theoutdoorshop.com/Outdoor/ProductDetails.aspx?language=en-GB&product=21862

http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/

As you said being a larger fellow you may find the following sleeping bag useful, the Snugpak Expanda Panel system allows Snugpak Softie range of bags to be made slightly larger if you find that the other bags are a bit of a tight fit.



Snugpak Sleeping bags from the Softie range are synthetic and one of the best performing synthetic bags available.

http://www.snugpak.com/30_codegreen/31_15_expandapanel.htm

Again there are so many other manufacturers making excellent sleeping bags.

The best known sleeping pad are actually known by the manufacturer; Thermarest. These are pads are self inflating and available in various sizes and thickness.

For car camping; http://www.thermarest.com/product_selection.aspx?cID=3

There is also a manufacturer called Exped who manufacture a range of Down filled mats called Downmat, probably the best for lightweight mountain winter camping; rated to -40 degrees Celsius.

http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage.nsf/b43HomePageE?openframeset

For the best lightweight cooking gear there is MSR, Primus and Snowpeak.

http://www.msrcorp.com/
http://www.primus.se/
http://www.snowpeak.com/gears/gear.htm

For an excellent review site you probably couldn't do any better than

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/

Hope this helps. (Hope nobody complains that the suggestions are a bit Euro biased)

Depending on how old you sons are, I'd encourage you to find a Boy Scout troop in your area. You could join as a leader too. You don't have to have the skills to be a leader.

From an equipment standpoint, here are my thoughts:

In general, find a good local sporting goods store. Avoid tents/sleeping gear from Target. Walmart actually has some pretty good stuff, though I wouldn't buy a tent from there.

Tents:
As my wife would testify, I have way too many tents. In general, any tent from Eureka is an excellent quality and reasonably priced. Other manufacturers may have nicer tents, but they are also more expensive. Make sure the tent comes factory seam-sealed. Avoid any tent - other than Eureka - that costs less than $100. For an adult and two growing kids, I'd recommend something bigger than a 4-person tent.

As I got older I've tended to prefer a simple dome tent with pole clips instead of sleeves, tall enough to just be able to stand up in (too tall and its harder to setup), and enough floor space for my gear. I've also started moving away from vestibules since I didn't use them and they make getting into/out of a tent just that much more complicated (zippers tend to be at the ground). Now that I'm in Scouting I've found that most of the Scoutmasters use simple dome tents that are about 10'x10' and 6' high. I like that size.

Aluminum poles are stronger than fiberglass, no doubt. Speaking as a scoutmaster though, if a boy steps on an aluminum pole, it could be fatal. A high quality fiberglass pole (Eureka, Alps Mountaineering) might be a better choice so long as you use storm guylines in windy weather and avoid very cold weather.

I've looked at LOTS of tents, and the best simple dome tent I could find that has 100% clips (no pole sleeves) is the Alps Mountaineering Meramac 6-person. You can order them directly from the company. http://www.alpsmountaineering.com .

For a lower price tent, take a look at the Eureka Tetragon 9. GREAT tent for the price. The Eureka Sunrise or Spacious is OK too. Get a sheet of plastic to put under the tent that is just smaller than the tent.

Follow these rules:

1. No shoes inside a tent
2. Open door zippers completely before entering/exiting
3. Stake out storm guylines if storms/winds are predicted - high winds will destroy a tent faster than just about anything else
4. Don't stake out guylines until bedtime to keep boys from tripping over them and ripping the tent - unless high winds are in the area
5. ALWAYS stake down the tent - even if it is free-standing - even moderate wind will turn a free-standing tent into a giant rolling beachball in no time
6. NO FLAMES INSIDE TENTS!!
7. Keep the screen doors closed to keep out the bugs!!!

Sleeping Bags:
Stick with synthetic insulation. Down is NOT needed.

If you're just camping in the summertime, get a soft fleece-lined bag that matches the lowest temperature rating you think you'll need. You can always bring extra blankets. I wouldn't worry about it being a mummy-shaped or rectangular bag. That only matters for winter camping. Anything Campmor.com, Cabelas.com, or a number of other excellent sources sells is decent quality (Slumberjack or Coleman would do you just fine).

If you're camping in the winter, then you'll want synthetic mummy bags without cotton lining. In the midwest we usually recommend at least 15-20 degree rating.

Sleeping Pads:
If your sons are young (8th grade or lower), they'll do just fine with closed cell foam pads (the Thermarest RidgeRest pads are great). They can probably sleep on most anything, including rocks, but the pads provide some insulation. Get full-length pads - not the the shorter versions.

For you, as an adult, it is a very different story. Avoid those bed-sized air matresses. They are lots of work and tend to get leaks. I would recommend you get the thickest Thermarest self-inflating pad that your budget can afford. Actually, blow your budget and get the next thickest size, because you will need it soon enough. I use the large (I'm tall and need the height) 3.5" "Ultimate" pad sold by Cabelas, and LOVE it - it has compelely changed my ability to sleep on the ground, BUT it is large and heavy. Another assistant scoutmaster in my troop uses the thickest self-inflating REI-brand pad that REI sells, and he likes that alot.

Stoves/Lanterns:
Stick with Coleman 2-burner stoves and Coleman gas lanterns. They are wonderful. Most people these days use propane stoves & lanterns, as opposed to the Coleman fuel versions. I myself have both kinds (yeah, too much gear), and I much prefer the Coleman fuel stove (I feel like I can control the flame better), and don't see any difference in the lanterns.

For electric lanterns, don't bother with the Coleman flourescent kind. Go to Target and get their River Rock K2 LED Lantern. It is fantastic, and a bargain for $20. While you're there, pick up a River Rock LED headlamp for each of you. Headlamps are great, and the Target River Rick headlamps are quite good for the price. If you want the best, go for the Princeton Tec EOS headlamp. I don't even carry hand-held flashlights anymore.

Don't forget to bring along:
-Steal some pots & pans from home - they'll work just fine

-Two plastic tubs for washing dishes (wash & rinse) Don't use paper plates & plastic utensils - teach your boys how to wash dishes - a great skill

-Camp chairs for relaxing (younger boys do just fine with 3-legged camp stools - Campmor sells a very good one for $10)

-If you hate bugs I might suggest investing in a simple screen tent, which will protect you against both bugs AND rain. It doesn't have to be fancy or expensive.

-Extra paracord - as storm guylines for tents, to put up the rain fly, to hang food/garbage away from critters, to tie up wild kids, etc... I'd buy two 100 foot hanks from countycomm.com, and then cut one into six 16' lengths and the other into two 50' lengths. A 16 foot length is easy to untangle and has lots of uses. The 50' lengths are somewhat of a pain to untangle, but great for hanging food or as a clothes line.

Water bottles - you'll find Gatoraide bottles do just great, and they come with one free serving of Gatoraide as well. Don't bother with those 5 gallon collapsable water bottles - they store small, but they'll leak fairly soon. Stick to hard water jugs.

Don't forget to store the food inside your car or hang it high at night, to avoid sharing with the local animals. DON'T put food inside your tent!!

Finally, spend LOTS of time around the campfire with your kids. THAT is the best part of camping - getting to know your kids - and vise versa.

Lots of great input so far. I agree with Ken that if your boys are interested in the outdoors, they might benefit from checking out their local Scout Troop. Still, you guys can all go family camping out of the trunk and have a great time.

I have some pretty high end stuff that I use now, particularly when we are backpacking. For car camping, however, I think some of the names mentioned for tents, like Eureka and Coleman are fine. I have always thought that the Coleman tents are good bang for the buck, as are the Eureka's. Near us, is a Coleman outlet store, where we can get last year's models of tents, backpacks, stoves, sleeping bags, etc. It's a good way to go. Kind of like buying a leftover 2006 car that's still on the lot when the 2007's came out, you get a great deal, and it's still brand new. Campmor offers deals like that online for last year's models.

If your boys are in Scouting already, you should know that you can get a fantastic discount by using a code for the Scouts on Coleman's website. Your Scoutmaster should have that info. When we go to the outlet, we show our Boy Scout card and get a nice discount that way too.

To make the adults comfortable, knowing that you're not going to be carrying any of this stuff, I would skip right past the self inflating pad and get a folding cot. It will make all the difference. Now, you can't take that backpacking. The Thermarest Prolite 3 is what I take when we're backpacking. I think you're a ways away from that. If you want your wife to get a good night's sleep, try a folding cot that has a foam pad.

Sleeping bags are going to depend on the temperatures you need to cover. Again, the mummy bags are great for cold weather, and backpacking, but, you might just want a rectangular bag for summer type camping so you have room to move. I'd go with synthetic, down is great, but, you need experience.

As I type this, I'm thinking that this is the opposite of what I tell the boys in my troop, when we're going light and fast. Still, I think for you to have some success and comfort early, the odds are better that you're going to stay with it and have fun!

It is about fun. It will recharge your batteries. Good Luck!

My two cents: Go relatively inexpensive for car camping. Assuming that you have a decent amount of trunk space, size (up to a point) is not an issue. Assuming that you are doing three season camping (no winters with heavy snow), you can use a cheaper tent.

It IS true that you get what you pay for. But what do you actually need? For car camping, even if you have a catastrophic failure, you can sleep in the car or even drive to a hotel. This is quite a different situation from a guy who has to walk 20 miles, and equipment failure may kill him. More money will also buy durability, but you first camp a few times to get experience to know what you like and don't like in gear. Don't over-buy for your very first time. Even if the stuff wears out after a dozen uses, if you didn't pay too much, no big loss. If you don't like camping and sell the stuff at a garage sale, no big loss.

I would recommend checking the sales at places like Sports Authority, Dicks, Big-5, and Sportman's warehouse. Stick with a good brand like Coleman, and get a tent large enough for your group (note that the "person" rating of a tent will pack you in like sardines -- always go one or two persons bigger). Get sleeping bags large enough and warm enough for the expected weather.

Also, get a cheap air mattress and a pump that can be powered from a cigarette lighter plug in your car. Some people might scoff at the idea, but you will get a better night's rest. Of course, this is a bad idea for backpacking, but just fine for car camping in the summer. Your wife will also thank you for the extra comfort.

I just piked up a $30 Coleman tent and a pair of $15 generic sleeping bags at a great Memorial Day sale. Sure, this is not the stuff to take to Everest, but I am not going to Everest. I just want to take my young kids car camping.

If you live near a Cabela’s check out their Alaskan Guide series. Its not the cheapest tent, but its damn near bullet proof. Check their bargain cave – they often get returns that they re-sell at a considerable savings. Slumberjack and Kelty bags offer good value for the cost.



I offer the following as a way not to repeat the mistake I made as someone who grew up camping and married someone who was not a camper:

Make sure you don’t try and “rough it” too much. There’s no quicker way to turn someone off that’s never camped before by insisting that a long weekends food supply should consist of dehydrated food, trail mix and jerky. Having a larger tent (One you can stand up in and move around) will be worth its weight in gold if (and when) it rains and it allows you go with air mattresses if you wish. Pick a campsite that has showers and a bathroom. Let everyone bring what they want and most of all have fun.

Coleman
Kelty
REI
Mountain Hardware
MountainGear
Mountainsmith
The North Face
Outdoor Research
Sierra Designs
[/quote]

My $.02. Start with a tent, not a tarp. Why? Better shelter, less bugs at night, no waking up with a snake keeping warm with you... Tent, my friend (or a Teepee, since those are being pushed a little). If the kids want to do a lean-to or something, let them have fun. I'm not a fan of the open air myself. DO invest in a good sleeping pad!

I second most of this list. BTW, it's "Mountain Hardwear" not "hardware." It's a pun. I've got clothes by them, TNF (The North Face), some Outdoor Research, had a few Eureka tents (not bad for beginning). Don't discount the REI store brand, as it's pretty decent quality at a good price. Same goes for EMS (Eastern Mountain Sports, a REI-like, East-coast chain). Personally I despise Coleman gear. Other than their lanterns (which rock!), I've found their stuff to be marginal, at best. Also try Arcteryx for jackets and backpacks. MSR for camping stoves, Mag-lights (the mini-mag) for flashlights (they're not the highest end, but extremely robust. Mine is 15 years old and going strong).

Some of the links on this thread are real good; check them out! You can also find amazing discounts at sales; ask the sales reps when they have their scheduled sales, and when new equipment gets released. Like, right now you might get good deals on winter stuff, as summer is coming. The folks at REI are real knowledgable, so pick their brains. Have fun, stay safe!

You have already received so much great info I almost don't know where to start. So I will keep this short and sweet. With zero camping experience, unless you are very wealthy I would not go for anything more expensive than WalMart stuff. I have seen more than one WallyWorld tent fail in stiff winds, but why buy a $200+ tent only to find out in one night that you and your entire family hate camping. If you survive the first trip and want to go more, you can upgrade to better stuff. Keep in mind that a tent touted as a four person tent means four sleeping bags, usually mummy style, touching on the sides, and no room for gear. Pretty close just for sleeping, and if weather should drive you inside, cabin fever will set in fast. Go bigger than you think you will need! If sleeping on the ground, you can go top dollar with the good stuff, or you can get a decent Coleman brand self inflating pad for about !/3 of the good stuff. I actually prefer my Coleman, unless I am packing it on my back, 'cuz it has a built in pillow. And speaking of pillows, don't forget them. If you guys normally have a nice fluffy pillow under your noggin, a couple of nights without any will be a bummer. Take a large ice chest with food/sodas/whatever, and enough munchies to stuff something in a kids mouth if they start sounding hungery. Insect repellant, and sunblock are a must. I could probably go on, but I kindasorta promised to keep this short. Go, have fun, and then upgrade to better stuff for the next trip...

I'll second, third, fifth or whatever that Eureka makes a great tent.

I wanted a four-season tent with a full fly and went for the K2-XT. It's been out in three seasons so far (I don't count the winter we had here much more than a harsh fall LOL). It has performed spectacularly from high heat to torrential downpour and high winds. It's one of the most solid tents I've ever used. However, it's probably more than what you'd want for family camping. It does have its drawbacks, but if Eureka's other tents are made as well as this one, they're probably a good purchase.

As mentioned before you might want a taller tent for the sake of comfort. There are a number of tents out there made to stand up to heavy windloads, and generally if they're not reinforced with heavy aluminum poles they're going to be pretty short.

Also, though I personally like vestibules and full flys just because I like to be able to go camping year round, rain doesn't always fall straight down, and I like the extra covered space they generally don't allow for speedy entrances or exits.

On one trip out of a number of tents, only the Eureka Tent and Sierra Designs Tent held up in a windstorm that ripped other tents off of the ground and a hailstorm that shredded some of the other tents.

I second the tent over tarp idea. Well, out here a tarp is doable because at night bugs are rarely a problem. But on the east coast anytime in the warmer months the bugs will be an issue. A tent, or even just a bug shelter, is essential. Oh, and just to let everyone know, the REI Trekker sleep pad
(1.75 inch loft) is on sale for $39. Thats a great price for a good solid pad that comes with a repair kit.

Not much I can add to this, other than a +1 to Ken's comments.

That, and take a good look at Colman and Sportmans Guide's "Guide Gear". Their current stuff would have been pretty hot stuff 20, 25 years ago, so it isn't too heavy or cumbersome if they catch the bug (or you do) and decide to start packing your gear in, and it's tough enough to work under fairly tame conditions (ie, not a howling wind, not driving rain, not golfball sized hail, not so cold that even a Raven complains about the chill in the air), but not so expensive that if this is goes totally pear shaped and will never, ever be repeated again under the threat of pain and household trauma that you are out someone's first year of college tuition.

Also look around for places that sell used gear, but not online- smaller, independent sporting goods places often have used items on consignment and you want to check that kind of thing out. And they generally don't mind if you want to set up a tent on the show room floor to see how big it really is.

Hmm... I actually wouldn't feel bad about taking a tarp (rather a poncho as far as personal preference) over a tent. Unless the weather is very cold or rainy and the environment totally barren I wouldn't bother with a tent any longer. It's a lot of extra bulk and weight that most of the time simply isn't necessary. I've slept under a poncho lean-to in many kinds of terrain and weather, including heavy rain, and it always did a good job.

But I agree it's not for the inexperienced or faint of heart. If you're not used to the outdoors and if the thought of bugs and snakes scares you to death you will be more comfortable in a tent. Though you will be less comfortable lugging around that tent on longer hikes and you'd better practice setting it up at home so that you can do it quickly outdoors even in poor weather.

Here are some tips about protecting yourself against bugs:

First the most effective is probably 30% DEET lotion (not spray) that you apply only on skin, and neither on clothing nor underneath cloting. Apply the stuff sparingly especially above the eyes as it may drip on your eyes.

If you're going to use both DEET and sunscreen, apply the sunscreen first, then about 30 min later apply the DEET lotion. Then later on reapply sunscreen on top as needed. DEET does lessen the efficacy of sunscreen. Avoid preparations that combine both a sunscreen and a repellent, because they are often low in strength and, therefore, the protection is not long-lasting.

Follow safety precautions when using it on children (I think it's recommended to use 10%). Don't use it on their hands.

For your clothing, spray them with permethrin but not on your skin (don't spray them when you're wearing them). It will last for about 2 weeks even through several washings. You can even spray your tent and bags, and then they become "bug-out bags" in the true sense.

You should get decent quality head nets, it's so cheap. Try to see if it fits on your T4 Tilley, because you need a hat to wear them.



Hope this helps.
Frankie

Hi digimark

I've had a quick look on the REI website; Lots and Lots of excellent gear. Although expensive everything would be able to double up for trekking apart from the Tent but will still allow you to be comfortable whilst car camping.


For the Tent.

http://www.rei.com/product/732924?vcat=REI_SSHP_CAMPING_TOC

The Kelty Pavilion 4 Tent looks superb; Strictly for car camping though at 20 lbs. 3 oz. For trail camping something like the http://www.rei.com/product/731624 Marmot Marmot Aeolos 2P Tent looks the business at 5 lbs. 12 oz. 2 required for 4 people.


For Sleeping Bags.

http://www.rei.com/product/747386

Marmot Wasatch +25 Sleeping Bag - Regular - plus points - Nice and wide at the shoulder and light enough to carry on the trail aswell as for car camping at 2 lbs. 12 oz. Good Durable 3 season bag.

For Sleeping Pads.

http://www.rei.com/product/720780

Exped DownMat 9 Deluxe Air Pad. A really comfortable sleeping pad; as comfortable as anything from Thermarest weighing 3 times as much; Can still be used for Trekking at 2 lbs. 12 oz. But the standard Exped DownMat 9 Air Pad is narrower and weighs less at 2 pounds.

For Camping Stove/Stoves;

http://www.rei.com/product/696978

Snow Peak Giga Power Blended Fuel Stove; 11.25 ounces; reasonably lightweight with better stability than normal stoves; Get a couple and use with 500 gram canisters for car camping. Use in conjuction with a table for cooking such as the one found at http://www.rei.com/product/721713?vcat=REI_SSHP_CAMPING_TOC

For Cooking Utensils

http://www.rei.com/product/708986?vcat=REI_SSHP_CAMPING_TOC

MSR Duralite is a good compromise between cost and functionality and again would be able to double up for trail camping.

For Headlamps

http://www.rei.com/product/751760

Petzl Tikka XP LED Headlamp: Not as powerful as the Princeton Tec Apex Pro LED Headlamp but not as expensive and just fine for car and trail camping being lightweight and compact using AAA batteries.

Hope this helps with respect to actual gear.

Just a couple of thoughts about equipment:

Like you my Darling Bride thinks "roughing it" means staying at a hotel WITHOUT room service. Not long after we were married I took her camping for the first time. I had a great time, she didnt' and hasn't been back since.

Buy the basics tent, sleeping bags, lanterns and a stove.

Since you'll be camping at a state park there will probably be a decent bathroom/showerhouse but check it out beforehand. Nothing is going to make her more miserable than not being able to "freshen up".

For a tent (2 adults and 2 children) a minimum size would be 10X10. Get one that is at least 6' high. Being able to stand up in the tent is a big bonus while getting dressed for you and her. A dome style is the easiest to set up. Stick to the brand names (Coleman is fine) and try Wally World or Dicks Sporting Goods. Decent prices.

Make sure to get an air mattress (double or queen size) for you and her. You will sleep much better. Kids can use foam pads, they'll be fine. Make sure to take pillows.

Sleeping bags don't have to be too expensive. Coleman is fine. Might think about getting one big enough for you and her and seperate ones for the kids.

Lanterns and stove. Coleman again. I use their 2burner propane stove and propane lanterns. Easy to deal with and the fule bottles aren't that expensive.

Borrow kitchen supplies from the house.

As for bugs. Take bug spray and citronella candles.

Pick a weekend and go for it. If the wether forecast is for nasty rainy weather pick another weekend. Nothing will ruin the first trip maore than bad weather.

Have a great time and report back to us after your first adventure.

Or girlfriends, or non-camping friends. Matter of fact, that 2-3 day camping trip might just turn into a very short one nighter. Been there!

DEET is also very good at destroying equipment. I've been using picaridin for a few weeks and I've been bit exactly once.

Thats good news. I just noticed Cutter has two kinds of repellent with picaridin. One with 7% and one the 15%. Which one were you using, and how much did you have to use?

Just a few quick notes:

1) As mentioned, you don't need a down sleeping bag. Down is realistically useful primarily for hikers, where every ounce and cubic centimeter is counted. Car camping, you don't need to worry about it. Synthetic bags are warmer in damp weather, easier to wash, and generally a tad bit cheaper.

I'm a big fan of the Big Agnes bags for car camping. They are squarish, as opposed to tapered or mummy style, so they have a lot of room. They also have a sleeve on the bottom side into which your pad goes, so that you don't roll off in the middle of the night. Highly recommended for inexperienced campers, or those (like me) who thrash around in their sleep.

2) Sleeping pads: even with a thick self-inflating pad, your more "pointy" areas (like hips and shoulder blades) tend to sink into the foam, making cold spots. In addition, I find the pads themselves don't offer the support I like. As I've gotten older my tolerance for discomfort has decreased substantially! After many years of suffering on even the really thick pads, I finally hit on the magic formula: a standard Thermarest, topped by one of their closed-cell foam RidgeRest pads, which easily fit into the Big Agnes sleeve. It's heaven!

3) Tents: Don't buy anything with a rain fly that doesn't come within 6 inches of the ground. Cheaper tents often have skimpy little flys, which you will regret in your first downpour. REI's house brand tents are generally reasonably priced and well designed, and you could do a lot worse.

If you find you like camping, you might consider ditching the tent and buying a double TentCot. They are incredibly comfortable - more than any pad on the ground - and I can virtually guarantee that your wife will not complain about sleeping in one!

4) Bug protection: I wasn't even going to comment, but the use of DEET bothers me. DEET melts plastics (including nylon) - do you really think it's a good idea to put a chemical like that on your skin?? Not me! I've been using REPEL brand plant-based (eucalyptus) repellants for several years, and am completely sold on them. They are at least as effective as the DEET I once used, and I don't have to worry about mutating from the chemicals.

-=[ Grant ]=-

Hmm... let me check the can.... 15%. The little can that Walmart has as an impulse item in the check outs for $2. I spray it lightly along my arms and calves, squirt it into my hand and rub it on my cheeks, forehead, neck, ears and dry my hand in my hair (getting a little thin).

What bit me was a deer fly. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, but a flamethrower will repel those things in my experience. I remember "macing" one with 100% DEET once and it wasn't even phased.

Misquitoes buzz around you, but they don't get closer than a few inches. Oddly, it seems to attact the males, which I squash happily- only something like .1% of skeeters are boys, so I figure every one I hammer is another vote for inbreeding which will either make them worse or kill them off in a few hundred years. :P

It works really well against black flies. I'm allergic to those things, 10-12 bites and I'm having chills. Not blessed nibble.

Kochanski gives the same advice in his Clothing & Sleeping Bags DVD. The closed-cell foam acts like a snowshoe on the softer pads like the open-cell foam. It's funny that people think the rougher you camp, the more you have to sacrifice on the comfort of sleeping while experienced survival instructors teach that to work on the comfort of your bed is a top priority so as to help conserve energy and think clearly in the roughest camping level there is, having to unexpectedly survive in the bush totally cut out from civilization.

Frankie

I'm gonna go get a bottle of the 15% stuff tomorrow. Black flies are more of a problem to me than mosquitoes and if it works for them I'm satisfied. And I know what you mean about deer flies. That is, if what I call "horseflies" are the same thing. I hike on a horse trail and those jokers know how to bite and draw some blood. I swear sometimes I feel like a small animal came out of the bushes and took a bite out of my leg.

Some may find the following chemical weapon against the 'Bugs' useful, along with Neem, Tea tree oil and Citronella there is another natural insect repellent called bog myrtle,

http://www.stopbite.com/

Might be useful for those if nothing else seems to work. The Vikings apparently used it as an insect repellent. Its was also put into ancient traditional heather beer brews. The beer is available today, I had a couple of Pints during the week from the local supermarket. The Vikings used to drink the brew before going into battle with their customary berserk frenzy. A bit like MREs

Wives that think roughing it involves staying at Motel 6 are tough to please when it comes to even car camping. BUT ...anything you can do that will enhance her experience is your only shot ...and we all know that once they hate it there's no going back.
So ...that said ...you are now only limited by your wallet and available storage space in your transportation vehicle of choice for this trip.
I'd go with the most comfy sleeping arrangements and a roomy tent.
For car camping getting lightweight stuff has merit only from the standpoint that if you progress to backpacking or have (want) things small and compact for future trips you won't have wasted money ...but kitchen chores are much easier with Coleman Propane stoves and lanterns....and if you progress to using smaller stuff someday, you can relegate these items to your disaster kits and backyard camping etc.
Choose food that simplifies the meal process..not too many pots and pans and ingredients that keep well in an ice chest.
Make sure the kids have stuff to do if it rains ... or when you are tired of chasing them around the campground. Spaghetti, Mac 'n Cheese, hot dogs, burgers, steaks, pork 'n beans, chili etc ... you get the idea.
If you're thinking of taking short hikes....consider water bottle carriers for everyone and bring bottled water.
I have always liked car camping ....and bring more creature comforts each time. Lounging around the camp fire is great, especially after the kids had collapsed for the night. If the wife has a favorite special beverage this is the time to break it out. If not, or she's already given up ever doing this again, make sure you have one for yourself.
Quiet parks, are best, since rowdy neighbors tend to make for a negative experience. And a short quick trip ...a couple days .. is better for the first time...that way if its really horrible it doesn't last long and your shortcomings in planning due to budget or "I shoulda thought of that" items won't require "doing without" for a long time.
Good luck recruiting the spouse ... but if she doesn't want to participate in the future it can become guy thing with your kids ... which can be a great bonding thing...which is always good.

I would basically second everything said.
If you’re just starting out car-camping in temperate weather; weight and extreme service capabilities aren’t really important. Start with cheaper versions (i.e. heavier and higher temp. bags and tents) and find what works for you. If it doesn’t turn out to be a good experience, you don’t have a huge investment in equipment. If you (and the wife) like camping upgrade individual items as you need to. Also kids grow (we have several sizes of stuff).

Consider these items:

Kelty Triptease Lightline(tm)- it makes guy lines easier to see, hopefully harder to trip over (if you use a flashlight)
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores...6&langId=-1


Insul Mat Max-Thermo-Lite 1.0 Sleeping Pad - Regular - '06 – The side beams make this feel wider than it is ((harder to roll off of)
http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductD...0000008001&

My experience with deer flies is not too bad. I developped a technique. They are so big that you can't miss them when they start hovering around you. I just pretend to ignore it and let it land on my arm or whatever part of exposed skin. I let it settle for a few seconds maybe, and just before it bites me, I swat it diagonally which makes it drop on the ground and then quickly step on it to crush it and finish it mercilessly.

Black flies are another matter. They are so small and are like little piranhas, they gang up on you and when they bite they actually remove flesh. I once ended up to the hospital on account of black flies.

Frankie

Just make sure you finish them off, nothing worse than a wounded one, it just makes them mad

Why don't you buy from Mountain Equipment Coop(MEC) in Canada? it will ship to US too. MEC makes its own tent. I buy alot of MEC gear. Their stuff are made from state of the art material and cheap too. I am also a coop member. You only pay a small $5.00 membership fee to join the Coop.

http://www.mec.ca

Horseflies are the bigger version of a deerfly. I hate those things with a passion, one tried to pierce my ear once.

I might suggest heading a little east for your first camping trip and come to Frederick (about 45-minutes to 1 hour from Bowie) and camp at Gambrill State Park off of Route 40, just outside the city limits. It is easy to get to and close enough to Frederick that if you forget anything Wal-Mart, Target and K-Mart are very close.

In addition, there is a great locally owned outdoor store “The Trail House” in downtown Frederick, which has most of what you need and a very knowledgeable and friendly staff who are more then willing to take the time and talk to first-time/novice campers on their needs.

Gambrill has some excellent well-marked trails ranging from very easy to moderate and some beautiful vistas. The campground allows you to keep your car at the site and offers pads for you to set up your tent.

Depending on when you might be able to camp at Gambrill, I might be able to stop by and say hello or join you on a hike.

Pete

Hi Mark,

There's been a lot of good advice so far. My advice is do not buy anything. Rent or borrow everything. It doesn't sound like you or your wife all that enthusiastic about camping (although I admire you for trying), so there's no point in buying anything if you're not going to use it. Reviews and opinions on different products probably aren't going to be very helpful for you, since your needs are different than everyone else's.

If you decide you do want buy your own gear, don't be seduced by all the fancy name brand equipment out there. Most likely you won't need it, in some cases, it might actually be worse for you. For example, there is some very lightweight high end backpacking gear, but for a car camper most of the stuff is harder to use, more delicate, and much more expensive than you need.

For a beginner camping family, I think you could probably outfit a family of 4 for about $200 with tents, sleeping bags, and stove. Costco sells family sized tents for approximately $100, sleeping bags can be as cheap as $20 (for mild weather), and there are decent single burner stoves for about $20 (double burner for about $40). None of this stuff is what you would consider top quality, but it's not junk either. It'll definitely last you long enough to decide whether or not you want to pursue camping as a family activity, and might last you a lot longer than you want (so you won't have an excuse to go buy new gear)

Also, I've taken a lot of beginners camping, the most important thing to remember is not to try too much too soon. You don't want to scare them off if this is their first time camping. Start them off in a nearby park, with full amenities. That means pay showers, toilets, maybe running water and other luxuries. Showers and toilets are a must for anyone not used to camping, the quickest way to turn off your wife to the outdoors is to hand them a roll of TP and tell them to dig a hole. Don't forget that they're not interested in practicing their survival skills, they're just there to have fun. If you know any friends or family that have been camping before, ask them if you can tag along. It will make life a lot easier for you if there's someone with a little bit of experience to show you the important things.

KenK,

Great camping gear advice!

Preparing meals, eating, and sitting around a campfire at night and on cold mornings are some of my fondest experiences with the Boy Scouts.

Committee Member
Webmaster
Troop 824

So much info -- thank you everyone. I've made a list of everyone's suggestions and I'm checking through them now. Should be through it all by about 2012... 8-)

With so many options I'm becoming acutely aware that I'm not sure exactly what I need. It's making it harder. -Gary

Like a lot of things on this forum the answer is 'look at dougs gear advice'. You'll spot one mistake straight away: You want a bug out bag but are thinking of a down one. Trail mag in the UK found just 6 months of being stored rolled can reduce a down bags effectiveness by over 50%. Whereas Wiggys for instance are so compaction resistance the Alaska National Guard actually use them in their survival kits vacuum sealed.

It's nice having these forums to kick ideas around in. But stick to the experts advice when it comes to survival.
Simon

How do you feed a Wiggy? Is is dangerous? Sorry, couldn't resist.

I just have to chime in with KenK on the Eureka tents. I used a Eureka Timberline as a scout in the mid 80's and it was great. Lasted for a long time (with proper care & storage), kept me dry in most seasons camping (Virginia area, plus some High Adventure in Maine). The fact that the Timberline model is made by them today and it is nearly the same as what I had is testimony for this tent.

I'd like to contradict Ken on the ground cloth. I like to make sure to get a ground cloth that is the same shape as the footprint of the tent, but a little _bigger_. Then, after the tent is set up, roll the cloth under so that it does not stick out from under the tent (or it will act like a big bathtub). The roll helps to keep runoff from coming up onto the ground cloth.

I have always preferred tents like the Timberline that have the rain fly that extends all the way down the side, as opposed to covering just the top vent.

When practicing setting up the tent prior to the trip (you are planning to practice, right :-) I tie some bits of construction marking tape or other ribbon to the lines that will be staked out. This helps keep them visible (during the day at least) to cut down on tripping.


Have fun!

One thing we did last spring (me, wife, 4 daughters) is a "Half Campout". We got a spot at Bull Run Campgrounds and packed the camping gear up and went down before lunch time. Set up the tent, the hammock, the chairs. Had lunch, hiked around, etc. Had a fire in the fire pit, cooked dinner & dessert. The kids got to get familiar with the tent & the whole atmosphere, but we packed it up after sitting around the fire for a while and and came back home around 10:00 (only about a 30 minute drive).

It was good as an introduction (oldest was 8, youngest were 3), without an actual overnight. Gave us a chance to try our gear, learn some safety lessons, & get a feel for camping.

Just a heads up... Wiggy's is having a 20% off sale on all their sleeping bags through the end of June.

I picked up a SuperLight for my wife to match mine. Excellent bag, but not the smallest and lightest. It will keep you alive even when wet though, which a down bag won't likely do.

Greg