I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the Sigg aluminium boxes as vessels for boiling water (in an emergency). I ask because they are described as not for cooking, but I don't know if this is because the heat might warp them or damage the outside coating (or some such relatively minor concern) or because some joints will fall apart or something will poison the water.

Any comments welcome...

(An alternative option is to pack my semi-EDC "extension kit" into a 1 litre (32oz) Nalgene bottle, but the mouth isn't quite wide enough to get in the AMK heatsheet without repacking. And clearly, you can't boil water in the Nalgene by conventional methods.)

Thanks,

eeph

Re: eeph

I don’t think you would have much problem boiling water in your Sigg aluminium box in an emergency situation. The reason Sigg doesn't recommend that the aluminium boxes are not used for cooking is because they are not designed for repeated cooking use simply because the walls of the box are very thin. I believe the coating is an anodised coating, which is quite tough but can be affected by deep scratches. The other problem with the Sigg boxes is the handling of the box when full of boiling water. Therefore an MSR pot lifter should be included if you are going to use one of these boxes as a container for your PSK. Therefore to summarise, boiling water in an emergency (would be much better than an aluminium foil tray) shouldn't be a problem but I wouldn't use it for frying or other cooking duties. Continual use may warp the box as well simply because the aluminium walls are so thin.

If a similar box (the smallest one) were to be made from titanium. That would be just perfect for a PSK container.

you might try the EURO 3-Piece Mess Kit from http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/saver.htm
if you can deal with the added space it would save a lot of money.

I've seen people putting pots (all kinds) directly on the coals of a fire. I wouldn't do this with any pot, and esp not with thin-walled aluminum. And you don't need to. Just prop it up on a few rocks above the heat source.

Sue

Thanks, all, for the advice.

I got the larger-sized Sigg box in the plain brushed-silver colour - I don't think it's coated with anything - as my other concerns were weight and usefulness as a container.

eeph

Trangia makes a nice sized retangular mess tin than you can cook with, although it is too big for pocket carry. It would easily fit in a BDU cargo pocket, but you would walk funny.

Why not simply use a cooking pot and tape the lid on? Someone wrote a while back about how we all like to improvise when there is no need to. If all you've got is a Sig box ok, but why chose to use the wrong thing when you can pack a real cookpot? Or slap a kidney shaped mug on the bottom of your water bottle.
I fell into this trap and bought a pair of ponchos with cord and poles to make a tent. A few minutes of trying to put it up reminded me how awful 2 pole tents were to assemble. I could barely manage it in full daylight, with no wind and in good weather. And at the end of it what did I have? A tiny low groundsheetless, draughty, condensation wet, bug ridden tent that I got sprayed with rain in since it was barely longer than me. I went back to a proper tent.

That's why some of us surplus mess tins for our cases. The UK one is superb!

Basically, weight.

This is semi-EDC, and not for when I expect to have to use it. A cooking pot would (I expect) be heavier, and would not be large enough (in its longest dimension) to act as container for the other items, hence the weight of a separate container and a two-piece solution.

It's more a substitute for aluminium foil or a collapsed disposable baking tin than for a cooking pot. A lightweight metal mug would be another option. The steel ones I have are too heavy, and it would still be another item.

I don't carry a conventional water bottle, but there's a ~1 litre platypack in the tin and some roasting bags that can also be used for water storage.

eeph

I have some ex-issue UK mess-tins, somewhere. For this application they're heavier than I'd like and don't really double as a waterproof kit container. And again, too short in the longest dimension.

(But thanks for the suggestion!)

eeph

The hard anodized aluminium pans available now are lighter than steel uk mess tins, cook better and easier to clean. Rectangular mess tins aren't as great as people think. they don't fit together tightly, rattle and are the wrong shape for use on a stove.
Simon

From on-line edition of backpacker magazine:
Simon

GSI Outdoors Hard Anodized Extreme Cookware

Lightweight, durable, and easy to clean, this is the best camp cookware we've used.

By Jonathan Dorn, BACKPACKER Editor-in-Chief, April 2001



Photo by Steve Howe

There isn't a hungry backpacker in the land who won't appreciate the performance of GSI's remarkable new Hard Anodized Extreme cookware. We cooked more than 100 meals using two Extreme cooksets last fall and winter and never mangled an omelette or burned a burrito.

The Extreme pots are made from lightweight aluminum that's been "hard anodized," a process that alters and toughens the cooking surfaces. The result is an almost scratchproof finish; our pans show only a few tiny nicks. Anodization also creates a permanent nonstick surface (there's no coating to wear off) that let us bake fry bread, pancakes, and cookies without using oil. There's so little scorching that dish duty rarely amounts to more than a quick wipe.



Even better, the pots distribute heat more efficiently than other camp cookware we've tried, which translates into faster boiling times, even cooking, and reduced fuel consumption. On one weeklong hike, we marveled at how fast we brewed hot drinks for a party of seven and at how much fuel was left at week's end-despite the addition of two unaccounted-for hikers. We also found that the pans fried evenly rather than browning just a little spot in the center. (Test the heat distribution for yourself: Boil water side by side in this pot and another aluminum one, and note how the circle of bubbles on the bottom of the GSI pot is farther from the center.)

GSI's Hard Anodized Extreme cookware comes in five- and seven-piece sets, mess kits, fry pans, and other styles. It isn't the least expensive on the market, but it may be the best value due to its durability and groundbreaking, no-fuss performance.

HARD ANODIZED EXTREME COOKWARE
Price: $61
Weight (mfr./BP): 1 LB 10 oz./2 lbs.
Contact: GSI Outdoors, (800) 704-4474; www.gsioutdoors.com

Two one gallon ziplock bags over the outside and everything that MUST stay dry is in waterproof packaging already, with the whole thing slipped into a spare watch cap so the bags don't get chewed up. It's pretty waterproof.

Mine is the French copy, who's handle I like better, and it's pretty light already. Aluminum construction, and while it is thicker than the Sigg, it IS designed for being in/over/on fire.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i132/ironraven/100_1276re.jpg

I learned that the second ziplock is a GOOD thing last fall when I found that friction had rubbed a hole through the single one.

The UK tins are also shiny so they reflect heat and are difficult to clean. If you think the latter is insignifcant; I'd argue a surival situation is the last time you need food poisoning. The handles also don't lock. Try pouring from them and they can easilyclose and spill.
Worse of all from a soldiering point of view: the shiny metal can give away your position. Though that's an advantage for a survivor.
Simon

I would agree that the UK mess tins are difficult to clean and should really only be used to boil water. They are quite good for heating MREs, UK ration foil sachets in boiling water as they fit quite nicely inside. The boiling water is then used for the beverages. I certainly wouldn't attempt to fry your eggs and bacon in one of them. They were designed to be used with a hexamine stove which would soon blacken the bottom of the mess tin to allow greater heat transfer. The handles don't lock, and they can sometimes be awkward to pour boiling water. Just pour the boiling water from the opposite corners from the handle and you will be fine. They are also very cheap to buy.

Mine are neither shiny nor hard to clean. But all I do with it is boil water and make rice or instant potatoes. :P