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#91878 - 04/21/07 01:52 AM Re: Survival in the classroom? [Re: benjammin]
MDinana Offline

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2196
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: benjammin
However, if I got hold of the guy's shooting arm I'd slash his wrists hard and deep and he will be unable to pull on a trigger immediately.

May I suggest, if it comes to that, to stab the wrists, not slash them. The tendons are fairly tough, kind of deep, and there's actually a bit of redundancy to the index and middle finger. You may "slash" the first layer, but there are deeper tendons that might still allow finger movement.

#91891 - 04/21/07 03:36 AM Re: Survival in the classroom? [Re: TK_Miller]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Becuase they are extremely expensive, not just to purchase but to maintain proficency with, and they are one shot, so if you miss or it can't make it through the clothing, you are out of luck. It just is not a feasible option for most of us.

And AFAIK, every jurisdiction treats it like a firearm for CC purposes.


When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

#91899 - 04/21/07 09:25 AM Re: Survival in the classroom? [Re: UTAlumnus]
Rio Offline

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 112
Loc: Pacific North West
Originally Posted By: UTAlumnus
That's why I like the CRKT M16 family...
...On the one I've got the blade locks almost as solid as a fixed blade. The only movement is the space needed for tolerances. The liner lock is blocked from being moved out of the path of the blade by the spring loaded yellow piece in the drawing.

This afternoon, I bought a CRKT M16-13Z, based on your post. I have to say, so far I am very impressed by this knife. I like it for all the reasons you mentioned, additionally, the Carson Flipper is just plain fun to use smile

#91902 - 04/21/07 09:53 AM Re: Survival in the classroom? [Re: Dave568]

Does anyone know if anyone markets a School/Work backpack which has a laminated kevlar back construction and allows for an insert of a ceramic plate. I'm sure that there is probably going to be some manufacturer who can successfully integrate the technology which has saved so many American lives in Iraq into a school backpack. The backpack could then be designed to allow the backpack to be held over the chest. It might be a bit heavy especially with the ceramic plate but I'm sure there would be a market for it especially when considering the recent news. It could be called the FlakPak or if Apple Inc was marketing it could be called the iflak. Having teenage students carrying a concealed firearms is not a good idea and this may be the solution. As for the escape repelling down paracord, this could be the basis for a good idea especially if a more heavily loaded rope or cord with a higher breaking strain was used - it could even be integrated into the FlakPak

#91903 - 04/21/07 11:44 AM Re: Survival in the classroom? [Re: ]
Tom_L Offline

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Lol FlakPak?

No offense but this kind of paranoia and downright siege mentality is not a good thing. School shootings happen and it's always a tragedy. But when you look at it realistically, the danger of getting shot at your school or workplace is rather minuscule compared to everything else that might go wrong. A fire or gas explosion could easily kill many more people in a crowded building than an armed maniac. It's something that could happen any time but there is no reason to freak out about it. No more than it is shivering in fear every time you cross the street for the fear of getting run over by a car. If you let your fears control your life you will end up a very miserable person. And it sure ain't what survival (in the good sense of the word) is about in the first place.

There also seems to be a tendency among some people here to believe that just carrying a gun will automatically protect you from attack. That doesn't make any sense. If you find yourself a victim of an assault (and as much as in any other kind of survival situation) having the right tool at hand definitely makes it a lot easier but it's always the mindset that wins the day. Without the correct mindset no gun or survival kit will help. I seriously doubt someone who is advocating the idea of a FlakPak or paracord to escape from a building or even academically daydreaming about the best way to cut a gunman's wrist really knows what kind of mindset it takes to survive in a serious situation.

#91907 - 04/21/07 02:18 PM Re: Survival in the classroom? [Re: Tom_L]

Isn't survival about not being prematurely deceased? If we were to analyse on a statistical basis the reasons for premature deaths then major cause of premature death would be (in no certain order) Tobacco, Obesity, Auto accident, Drug and Alcohol abuse, criminal and accidental use of firearms. In the US the rate of premature death by firearms is actually quite high (varies between 20,000 and 30,000 US excess deaths per year by gunshot wounds) When we compared this rate to animal attack such as bear attack, would you criticise someone who carries bear repellent as someone who is paranoid in the same way. Tobacco, Obesity, Drug and Alcohol are personal choices, they are within the individuals control. Generally they do not represent a specific instantaneous life threatening event such as a crazed gunman.

In most survival circumstances the one thing that allows an individual to survive a life threatening situation is the ability to make decisions and use or form tools to their greatest effect (using the brain) so as to improve their personal chances of survival against the threat which exists such as exposure to the elements, lack of water etc. Most on the forum would carry a wide range of tools such as a PSK or a BOB. At the end of the day, in the urban environment you need to look at the threat probability level to get an understanding of what appropriate tools you need to carry and why.

Would you advocate that US soldiers in Iraq give up their body armour because they are paranoid about being shot to death simply because the probability of premature death from gunshot wounding is simply higher than in the United States. Does your car have airbags or ABS breaking? These are technological solutions to improve your chances of survival in a motor car accident. If you think these are viable innovations or you think that a PSK or BOB is justifiable then I think that you should come up with a more scientific reason for not carrying a product like the imaginary FlakPak when considering the deadly statistics of the US gun culture.

#91909 - 04/21/07 03:03 PM Re: Survival in the classroom? [Re: MDinana]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1004
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
The tendons are in a bone trough at the point where they go through the wrist. Back of this they are near the bones. Slashing about halfway back on the palm side of the arm will be cutting the muscles that bend the fingers.

#91910 - 04/21/07 03:10 PM Re: Survival in the classroom? [Re: ]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1004
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
use or form tools to their greatest effect
These are technological solutions to improve your chances of survival in a motor car accident.

That's exactly what we want. Anything you can form from on-site materials limits you to muscle power & a 5'-6' range. As long as I'm not in the first room attacked, I would have a much better chance of survival with a concealed carry weapon than something I can put together on the spot.

Most of us aren't talking about everyone being armed but those who have gone the extra step to get a CCW permit. I wouldn't have a problem with a two tier system. Getting the second tier would give the right to carry anywhere except a court room. Maybe two or three day class and actually score the range results.

#91915 - 04/21/07 03:55 PM Re: Survival in the classroom? [Re: UTAlumnus]
Tom_L Offline

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
I seriously don't want to step on anyone's toes but I do think a few people here could use a little reality check.

I'm all for being a responsible person and preparing yourself for possible contingencies but that's no reason I would ever advise anyone to wear a kevlar-lined backpack. No more than I would wear a helmet every day because a roof shingle or a meteor fragment might fall on my head. If I wanted to plan for every contingency I would eventually need to encase myself in armor from head to toe, wear a life jacket because the polar ice caps might melt, reinforce my car with bulletproof glass and armor plates, avoid all processed foods because they cause cancer, bath in bottled water because terrorists might secretly poison the local water supply etc. etc. All of which would quickly ruin my finances and mental health.

Second, there's simply no way you could compare an American classroom to soldiering in Iraq. If you are so out of touch with reality to draw such a comparison you have no idea what it's actually like to be in a fight, let alone be in a war zone. We should consider ourselves lucky that we still live in a comparatively very safe society. If you think otherwise you should perhaps go visit some third-world country one day.

Third, what possible use would a gimmick like a FlakPak be (I'm only using this as an example, there have been lots of similar ideas proposed in other posts, too)? If I'm sitting in class and a madman comes in guns ablaze the last thing I'd want would be a backpack on my body. I'd much rather take my chances and either dive for the window or take on the bad guy up close and personal. Which takes a lot more guts than most of us could possibly imagine though, regardless of whether you have a gun, knife or just your bare hands. Again, it's all about the mindset, not tools.

Please don't get me wrong. This is not meant to be a personal attack aimed at anyone in particular. I just think the general public would be a lot better off using some common sense instead of falling for the hype. If you are concerned about your safety it would probably be a better idea to get in shape, do some boxing or judo, maybe a good self-defense class, learn how to shoot and run fast if necessary... wink But above all avoid unnecessary paranoia. I was under the impression that this is not a survivalist forum but a place where one can discuss realistic survival techniques. I hope it stays that way.

#91921 - 04/21/07 06:11 PM Re: Survival in the classroom? [Re: Tom_L]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1004
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
learn how to shoot

Already know how to. What I'd like is the opportunity to be able to without having to commit a crime just by exercising a right that I have almost anywhere else in the state.

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