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#91428 - 04/17/07 11:07 PM Are you equipped to defend yourself
handyman Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 79
Loc: Massachusetts
All of the folks who read or are members of this forum are into or at least interested in being prepared to survive some sort of emergency or disaster , large or small . " WE " try to prepare , in some way , for many things .
IMO , the chance of being a victim of a violent act is greater than most things you or I could prepare for . Wether it is some crazy person in a school , a mall , a robbery , carjacking or even a terrorist attack .
I wonder how many of " us " out there are prepared to defend themselves . I know I would not want to be in a situation where I was totally helpless and defenseless . IMO if just one persaon in the room at VT. was legaly ccw there would not have been so many killed .
Imo , it is up to you and I to be prepared to defend ourselves . The police or security gaurds can't be everywhere . Counting on the police to always be there to protect you is like counting on FEMA and the GOV. to always be there to help you after a natural disaster .




Edited by handyman (04/17/07 11:22 PM)

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#91430 - 04/17/07 11:56 PM Re: Are you equipped to defend yourself [Re: handyman]
big_al Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 586
Loc: 20mi east of San Diego
So True, But intill "the people" get on there local reps. and have them vote for a "shall Issue Federal licance" you can kiss that idea good by. A Federal licence could be issued to all over say 21 that hae a clean nose. That includes State and Federal Law inforcement searchs.
_________________________
Some people try to turn back their odometers.
Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way
I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved

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#91431 - 04/17/07 11:58 PM Re: Are you equipped to defend yourself [Re: handyman]
samhain Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 598
Loc: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
College students carrying guns to class.

Now that image disturbs me.

College-aged students (early twenties) are still adolescents developmentally; easily getting passionately swept up in emotion and group/mob mentality.

Most are still in the process of developing impulse control and delaying gratification. That's part of the college education process.

Learning to set priorities, plan ahead, putting off what one wants to do at the moment in order to achieve a goal.

Which part of the football stadium has more fights; the student section or the one where the "adults" sit?

The image of the American old west where everyone was carrying guns where ever they went is a romantic one but unrealistic.

The population density now is exponentially greater now than during that time.

If my memory is correct, wasn't it Bat Masterson (old west gun slinging "hero") that outlawed carrying guns in the town where he was sheriff in order to establish order?

(I would humbley ask any historian to correct my facts, please.)

The great truth of the universe is sh*t happens.

No amount of fire-power is going to change that, and there are more what-if's than stars in the sky.

What happened at VT was and will continue to be unbelievably tragic, frightening, and to be honest, ticking me off royally.

It is natural for people to want to take some simple desisive action to eliminate what is scaring or ticking us off, but action taken out of fear and anger always creates more problems.

Remember, anger narrows and intensifies one's focus which makes it harder to see what's around one.

For now, it's best to grieve, hold our loved ones close and make big decisions when we have calmed down and thought things through.

Just for the record, I know the police can't be everywhere, and I still trust my safety to a police officer than a civilian carrying a gun.

_________________________
peace,
samhain autumnwood

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#91439 - 04/18/07 12:41 AM Re: Are you equipped to defend yourself [Re: handyman]
learnmore Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/25/04
Posts: 26
Loc: Western Michigan
We can not expect that there will be a police officer available to protect us at all times. It just isn't a reasonable expectation. We all have to make a personal decision regarding what we are willing to do to protect ourselves and our loved ones. We also have to live with that decision. If you choose not to have the means to protect yourself and God forbid you are violently attacked the results will be devestating and possibly loss of life. We live in a society where violent crime is a reality and I choose to be prepared to protect myself. This involves sufficient training and a great deal of practice. I know a local girl who is 18 years old, she is licensed to carry a concealed weapon, she is highly trained ,practices and competes regularly. We should all be able to make our own decision and understand the ramifications. We can not expect anyone else to protect us. We have to make the decision before we are ever put into a violent situation and our choices are to be a victim or protect ourselves. A trained law abiding citizen is the least of my worries. An encounter with a violent criminal who has no regard for the laws does bother me and I choose to be prepared to protect myself and my family.


Edited by learnmore (04/18/07 12:44 AM)

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#91441 - 04/18/07 12:56 AM Re: Are you equipped to defend yourself [Re: samhain]
raydarkhorse Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 510
Loc: on the road 10-11 months out o...


Samhain you need to read the FBI statistics, as a retired police officer I can tell you as documented by the FBI every year more people are stopped in the commission of a crime by private citizens than police. Why is that you may ask, because citizens are on the scene when crimes are being committed against them 100% of the time when the police are on scene less than 1% of the time.
The police arrived at this horrible scene as soon as humanly possible and doubtlessly saved many lives but if one person on scene at the beginning how many could have been saved.
One other thing you should consider. There is no place in any city, county or state charter or constitution and there is nothing in the American constitution that guarantees private citizens protection. No law enforcement officer is required to defend you they do so because of the oath they took and their personal honor and courage. And before I get off my soap box I want people who don't believe in carrying a gun to ask themselves If you are not willing to defend your self what makes you so much better than that police officer you are depending on that you expect him / her to risk their life to defend you.
I do not mean to offend anyone but to many people are willing to place an Officer in harms way when they are not willing to acccept resposibility for their protection and then criticize those that are.
_________________________
Depend on yourself, help those who are not able, and teach those that are.

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#91443 - 04/18/07 01:24 AM Re: Are you equipped to defend yourself [Re: ]
marantz Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 40
samhain -- I have to respectfully disagree with you on two points. I wouldn't call early 20's college students "still adolescents developmentally". When are people old enough to be adults? Should we restrict military service, alcoholic beverages, and marriage to only those 25 or 30 years old?

As for trusting your safety only to a police officer, and not an armed civilian, that is your choice. One of my younger brothers is a police officer, and as he's said, the police will generally arrive from 5 to 20 minutes after they're called, depending how far away they are. In that first 5 to 20 minutes, the only people on the scene are the criminals, the victims, and the witnesses. I wish someone at Virginia Tech had chosen to be armed, and had fought back. Twice the police were called there, and 33 people, including the gunman, died anyway. I have a CCW, and although I rarely carry my Glock, after some sober reflection, I may carry it more often.

I do agree with you that now is the time to "grieve, hold our loved ones close and make big decisions when we have calmed down and thought things through."

Take care, and stay safe...

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#91447 - 04/18/07 01:50 AM Re: Are you equipped to defend yourself [Re: marantz]
Be_Prepared Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 530
Loc: Massachusetts
This event at VT was a tragedy, and I hope the families can somehow find peace eventually.

Having said that, I still wonder why it had to be this way. If you're in a situation where there are 15 of you in a room, and some wacko comes in with a gun, once that first round hits someone, wouldn't you expect a Flight 93 scenario to unfold? I'm not saying that everyone's coming out alive, I just think that everyone else would take their chances and try to subdue the guy, figuring they are dead anyway if they do nothing. One of them was even quoted saying he watched the assailant reload at least once in the room. That takes a few seconds anyway. I don't know, maybe I expect more than is reasonable, but, after 9/11 I would have hoped for better. It sounds like the only reason this was 32 instead of 100+ was he took his own life. It didn't sound like anyone was trying to stop him, did I miss that in the stories?
_________________________

- Ron

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#91448 - 04/18/07 02:02 AM Re: Are you equipped to defend yourself [Re: raydarkhorse]
samhain Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 598
Loc: Baton Rouge, Louisiana

Quote:
No law enforcement officer is required to defend you they do so because of the oath they took and their personal honor and courage. And before I get off my soap box I want people who don't believe in carrying a gun to ask themselves If you are not willing to defend your self what makes you so much better than that police officer you are depending on that you expect him / her to risk their life to defend you.


Ray,

No offense taken and I appreciate your comments.

However, my preferance for law enforcment to be the ones carrying the guns comes not from a sense of entitlement but trust.

It's not that I expect the officer to sacrifice his/her life for me , but that I trust the officer to handle the weapon professionally and responsibly.

I do not trust the goof down the street (and I do have one in mind) to handle his weapon the same way.

I know my own obsessive sense of responsiblity when it comes to fire arms, I do not trust the person next to me to have that same sense of restraint and responsibilty.

If it is a right for me then it is a right for the goof down the street.
_________________________
peace,
samhain autumnwood

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#91449 - 04/18/07 02:04 AM Re: Are you equipped to defend yourself [Re: raydarkhorse]
big_al Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 586
Loc: 20mi east of San Diego

Raydarkhourse

BRAVO
_________________________
Some people try to turn back their odometers.
Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way
I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved

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#91450 - 04/18/07 02:14 AM Re: Are you equipped to defend yourself [Re: samhain]
big_al Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 586
Loc: 20mi east of San Diego
SAMHAIN

The Goof down the street might have been all it takes to get the guy to go elsewhere(it's one thing to shoot at people, it's anouther thing when they start to shoot back) or he may have downed the perp.
_________________________
Some people try to turn back their odometers.
Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way
I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved

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