Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 3 of 10 < 1 2 3 4 5 ... 9 10 >
Topic Options
#90875 - 04/11/07 11:40 AM Re: Whats happening to the Bees? [Re: ]
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
Originally Posted By: bentirran
Some thoughts on Bees and the madness of biofuels from Fidel Castro


So Castro is an expert on Biofuels now? What are you going to link to next, Kim Jong Il's musings on String Theory?

The only thing more pathetic than an aging, dying Stalinist are the dwindling numbers of people who still consider him relevant.

Top
#90898 - 04/11/07 06:54 PM Re: Whats happening to the Bees? [Re: ]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: bentirran
Some thoughts on Bees and the madness of biofuels from Fidel Castro


I would encourage people to read Castro's thoughtful remarks. Although he mentions bees, it's sort of an after-thought in this particular speech. But he does make excellent points about our newfound enthusiasm for ethanol, the impossibility of growing enough crops for ethanol production, how rising demand for food crops to make ethanol raises food prices for everyone, and other good points.

Well, ethanol is a different topic from this thread. Castro's comments about bees in this speech is rather brief.

Top
#90914 - 04/11/07 11:33 PM Re: Whats happening to the Bees? [Re: Arney]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Comrade-Primo Castro, and in all honesty pretty much everyone else, fails to grasp that ethanol engines will burn methanol just as easily, and paper and saw mill wastes can be used to feed microbes that will produce more methanol per pound than can be dreamed of with an equal quantity of sugar.


Edited by ironraven (04/11/07 11:35 PM)
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

Top
#90915 - 04/11/07 11:36 PM Re: Whats happening to the Bees? [Re: ironraven]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5237
Loc: SOCAL
Can we apply those microbes to our daily garbage? So much waste.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

Top
#90919 - 04/12/07 12:09 AM Re: Whats happening to the Bees? [Re: LED]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Yes, it appears that superweeds may currently be in 'production'... inadvertently.

An article by Tom Clarke in the British magazine, Nature, says the problem is apparently cropping up with the wild relatives (weeds) of the GM crops. The pollen of one of the GM crops, yellow-flowered oilseed rape (Brassica napus) seems to have gotten into the atmosphere and pollinated a few wild relatives, bargeman's cabbage (Brassica rapa) in England, a place that has never allowed GM crops.

From the article:
"Opponents of transgenic crops in Britain and much of Europe fear that genes for herbicide tolerance or insect resistance in yet-to-be-introduced strains might spread in pollen to form invincible weeds... How human-inserted genes move, and whether they persist in the environment, are the ultimate questions... It is a single piece in a very large jigsaw..."

The problem is that GM crops were planted, forced onto other countries, and put into commercial use without any information WHATSOEVER as to their consequences.

Wouldn't it be amusing to discover that our ignorant scientists and politician have engineered the eventual end of mankind?

How do you prepare for THAT?

Top
#90922 - 04/12/07 02:29 AM Re: Whats happening to the Bees? [Re: Susan]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The problem with the geneticists and their approach is that they have a very simple view of the world. Many of the geneticists who are effectively randomly (although they would state otherwise) replacing genes in living organisms believe in evolutionary biology. They regard a gene as a component which can be manipulated so that the gene can be transplanted from one organism to another so as to give a desirable profitable attribute. They believe that because a gene or set of genes in the first organism provided a useful attribute, they can transfer these attributes into another organism. They then believe that the have created a new useful organism which suits their companies profit and loss sheet and have also generated intellectual property, which can then be protected under corporate law. They do not believe that there are any consequences in the very complex biological interactions which occur within the biosphere because of this genetic modification or transfer.

What the geneticists and evolutionary biologists do not want to comprehend is Professor James Lovelock's theory called the Gaia hypothesis. This hypothesis basically states that the planet we all inhabit is essentially one large organism which is self regulating and is therefore in a state called homeostasis. The evolutionary biologists do not like (radically oppose) this hypothesis because a fundamental principle of the Gaia hypothisis states that an organism or group of organisms can change its environment to suit their own genetic propagation - this is fundamentally opposed to the principles behind their believes of the laws of natural selection whereby the organisms propagation of genetic material is dictated by the environment. They think that by controlling the environment in which the new organism exists they can control the genetic propagation of the organism.

By forcing a change in any organisms genetics, through the process of transgenics, goes directly against the fundamental principle of the natural laws which regulate the Gaia. The 'collective intelligence' of the Gaia may respond to the new genetics within the organism in ways which are unpredictable and consequential to the other plant, animal and human species. The consequences are unknown and could potentially be so profound that the Gaia may be forced into a different homeostasis set point.

Bee Colony Collapse Disorder may be a consequential process of GM release.




Edited by bentirran (04/12/07 02:49 AM)

Top
#90925 - 04/12/07 02:53 AM Re: Whats happening to the Bees? [Re: Russ]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
*nods* Paper and wood waste, they feed on cellulose. The left over fibers can then be dried and used for wood pellet-type heating systems at any scale or recycled further.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

Top
#90927 - 04/12/07 03:24 AM Re: Whats happening to the Bees? [Re: ]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3561
Loc: Spring, Texas
Bentirran,

Um, so what you/Lovelock are saying is Mother Gaia is purposely wiping out innocent bees (and every plant/animal depending on them!) in an attempt to kill mankind?

Sounds like several women I know...
crazy crazy crazy

-Blast


_________________________
Blogging the Borderlands
Wild Edibles Blog
I miss OBG.

Top
#90928 - 04/12/07 03:28 AM Re: Whats happening to the Bees? [Re: Susan]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3561
Loc: Spring, Texas
Quote:
Wouldn't it be amusing to discover that our ignorant scientists and politician have engineered the eventual end of mankind?


I could have been criminal mastermind but no, I wanted to use my gifts to help people. And this is the sort of thanks I get?

That's it. Time for the sharks with frikkin' laser beams attached to their heads!

-Blast, a scientist who now realizes all his sacrifices have been wasted. mad
_________________________
Blogging the Borderlands
Wild Edibles Blog
I miss OBG.

Top
#90930 - 04/12/07 03:57 AM Re: Whats happening to the Bees? [Re: Blast]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5237
Loc: SOCAL
Sounds more like "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". I don't know about this Gaia stuff, but when an equilibrium is upset, there are consequences.

You break it, you own it.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

Top
Page 3 of 10 < 1 2 3 4 5 ... 9 10 >



Moderator:  MartinFocazio, Tyber 
December
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31
Who's Online
1 registered (M_a_x), 215 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Acropolis50, SimonBlack88, KnifePark, Sank, AppalachianGirl
5299 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Happy anniversary to me!
by Phaedrus
05:24 AM
Going off pavement
by KenK
11:24 PM
Homing Pigeons as survival equipment
by Phaedrus
12:13 AM
Carrick Loop/ Bowline alternative - Tutorial
by TonyE
12/08/19 05:04 AM
Article: Community, Preparedness, Resiliency
by DaveL
12/08/19 02:12 AM
Nifty small headlamp
by haertig
12/08/19 01:56 AM
Fire starter
by hikermor
12/07/19 05:11 PM
Farmer's Loop Tutorial
by TonyE
12/04/19 11:08 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.