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#90071 - 03/31/07 11:56 PM Re: My first PSK [Re: ]
billym Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 616
Loc: Oakland, California
Originally Posted By: bentirran
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted By: bentirran

Whistle - Try an Aluminium Lifeventure model -smaller form factor and fits better into the PSK rather than the plastic ones.


I would suggest a better whistle than the novelty key chain variety ; also a metal whistle is not ideal under all condiditons.
Metal whistles can stick to your lips in freezing temps.

Stick with a plastic whistle that is designed for emergency / survival signaling. These types have been tested and approved by SOLAS and the US Coast Guard for this type of use; Storm, Acme and Fox 40 are good ones.


I know aluminum conducts heat away 100 times faster than air, but as with everything, common sense is all that is required. If someone puts an aluminum whistle which is at -30 degrees Celsius in their mouth and it sticks to the lips then surely that is probably the best place for whistle to end up anyway (visions of Dumb and Dumber come to mind) as the idiot using the whistle shouldn't probably have a PSK anyway. He might eat the Esbit tablet, burn his fingers with the hot part of his lighter, ask where the safety razor is - ask why does the shaving mirror have a hole in the middle and god forbid wonders what he should do with their condom in a survival situation especially at -30 degrees.

Although the whistles you mention are SOLAS and US Coast Guard approved and the aluminum Lifeventure model isn't, this is because the models you have mentioned will float. They are not any louder or anymore functional. The main disadvantages are that they are relatively large at take up a lot of space in a compact PSK. There is always the problem that a whistle may be left out of the PSK because of the size constraints of the PSK container. Traditionally, whistles have not been a part of a PSK. I would rather have one, albeit aluminum which is roughly 1/3 the size, rather than none at all in my PSK.

Update (edited) - The whistle is also referred to as a Lifesystems Mountain Whistle. - Recommended by the Mountain Leader Training Board (UK) as an essential item to be carried in the hills.








A whistle is SOLAS and USCG approved because of the amount of decibles it puts out (how loud); not if it floats.
The aluminum whistle may be better than nothing but it is not as loud as an USCG approved whistle so your chances of being heard over wind and weather are lower.

As for your statement about eating Esbit etc.; I was giving you more credit than perhaps I should have.

Having a reliable whistle so you get recued may be one of the most important parts of a PSK. Why would you go cheap? Just cause it is small? Even you were thinking of switching to a Fox40.

Perhaps I was looking at a different whistle; when I Googled "lifeventure whistle" that metal one was the only one I saw.
Now that I look at your photo I see a whistle that resembles ACR's rescue whistle.

What makes you think that whistles were not originally part of a PSK? What is your source?


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#90098 - 04/01/07 05:06 AM Re: My first PSK [Re: billym]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Oh, you can eat Esbit. It is a hexamine tablet with a slightly different binder than military hexies used, hence the slightly smoother texture. Hexamine is also has, or at least had, certain veterinary medicine applications.

That being said, it was for larger meat animals, and in teeny tiny doses so that the CNS and kidney damage wouldn't have any long term effects that wouldn't make it past the slaughter house. For a human, eating an esbit tablet would be a couple thousand times the dose given to say, veal calves. Among other things, the break down on heximine produces formaldehyde- that's why they say neither you nor your food should come into direct contact with the fumes. I think it would be a race to see which stopped working first- your nervous system, your kidneys or your liver...

Oh, and I don't think he was saying he ate one. I think he was coming up with a theoretical moron.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#90103 - 04/01/07 05:47 AM Re: My first PSK [Re: ironraven]
JCWohlschlag Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 724
Loc: Sterling, Virginia, United Sta...
Also, remember not to light it before you eat it. shocked
_________________________
“Hiking is just walking where it’s okay to pee. Sometimes old people hike by mistake.” — Demitri Martin

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#90104 - 04/01/07 05:56 AM Re: My first PSK [Re: MDinana]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Yeah, to protect you and your kit, I let me again suggest a mirror repair kit. They are thin mylar- they aren't great, but better than a CD, aren't flaking off little bits of ground glass, are very thin, and you cut them to pretty much any size and shape. I'm probably being a nudge, but I'd rather not have busted glass or lexan in my kit. :P


Edited by ironraven (04/01/07 05:57 AM)
Edit Reason: I'm a worry wort
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#90109 - 04/01/07 08:57 AM Re: My first PSK [Re: billym]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Re - billym

I have looked up the specification for both Whistle types. Both types of whistle can be found at www.lifesystems.co.uk website: the Orange Plastic Whistle and the Aluminium Whistle. From the specifications listed the larger plastic orange one will have an approx 25% further range than the aluminium one. i.e 4Km rather than 3Km for example. You are correct about the difference in loudness between the two whistles. I was comparing from experience the difference between the Lifesystems aluminium model and a commonly found whistle in the UK called a Perry Whistle.

When I said that whistles were not traditionally kept in PSKs, this needs further explanation. Civilian PSKs were a devepoment that came originally from the military domain. The small military PSKs were developed by members of the British SAS many years ago using small tobacco tins (e.g. John Wiseman). Other kits such as the NSN 8465-99-131-4142 Aircrew Survival Kit MKVI NATO kit also did not include a whistle. Even some of the personal kits reviewed on the equipped website do not specify a Whistle. I agree that a whistle is an essential item for civilian kits.

As there is a performance difference between the 2 whistles. There is also a difference in their sizes also. I would rather free up some space in a kit so as to include for example a Fenix AAA cree flashlight which would allow me to signal an SOS upto 20 miles at night rather than the extra 1/2 to 3/4 mile using the louder whistle.

Can I also ask what the minimum spec for the SOLAS and USCG for whistle loudness is currently. I have not been able to find out so far.


Maj. T.J. 'King' Kongs aircrew survival kits had no whistles included also.

"Survival kit contents check. In them you'll find:

- One forty-five caliber automatic
- Two boxes of ammunition
- Four days' concentrated emergency rations
- One drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine,
vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills
- One miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible
- One hundred dollars in rubles
- One hundred dollars in gold
- Nine packs of chewing gum
- One issue of prophylactics
- Three lipsticks
- Three pair of nylon stockings.

Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff."











Edited by bentirran (04/01/07 09:14 AM)

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#90124 - 04/01/07 03:42 PM Re: My first PSK [Re: OldBaldGuy]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
When I was a kid, I prowled the boonies wearing a WWII era GI pistol belt, canteen, and first aid pouch. Many years later, before I went to a hydration pack, I did basically the same, with some newer equipment. Canteen pouch with ALICE clips (less flopping around than the old wires), and a new version first aid kit. I pretty much gutted the kit and inserted my own stuff, turning it into a combo FAK and PSK. With the ALICE clips you can wear one on pretty much any belt, if you like belt stuff...


It's funny you mention that. Basically that IS my outdoor gear. I use a BDU belt instead of a web pelt though. Occasionally I'll toss on my camelback, if I decide the trip is long enough to carry food or extra clothes. Knife, FAK, canteen. My basics. The PSK is a step towards being more aware of the area. I don't have a lot of Midwest camping experience, so I thought it wise to prepare.

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#90125 - 04/01/07 03:46 PM Re: My first PSK [Re: JIM]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: JIM
The main thing that I don't see are some water-purification tablets.

Also, if you already carry a FAK on the belt, do you need more bandages and FA-cream in your PSK? If you would remove them, you could fit some HD aluminium foil in there.

Another thing you could fit in there is a magnifying-glass.

I assume you carry some form of shelter on your person?

Nice PSK!!

Jim, I'm glad you brought up a magnifying glass. Do you know where I can get a fresnel lens? I've tried all the major stores in town without success. As for shelter, I've been looking, but can only find 55 and 42 gal bags in black. I'll break down and get them, I suppose. Usually though there's at least 1 30gal in my camelback, as well as a space blanket.

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#90129 - 04/01/07 04:27 PM Re: My first PSK [Re: ]
billym Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 616
Loc: Oakland, California
Bentirran,

The plastic whistle looks a lot better than the metal one. But if the metal one goes to 100 decibles then it would probably work.
I could not find any standard for whistles from the USCG or SOLAS but the Storm brand whistle says it is between 108-120 decibles and the Storm is supposed to be one of if not the loudest.

I understand what you meant about the military not including a whistle. Most of the original PSKs were E&E kits and had to do more with getting to a friendly country/force than surviving.
A whistle might attract attention when it is unwanted.
I did look into WWII era US Army Air Force survival vests and there may have been a whistle attached to the vest but I am yet to confirm this.


Just a word on the signaling with a flashlight. The SAR folks will not be searching for you at night (I used to do some SAR work in the past and we never worked at night) and someone 20 miles away may be unaware that you are trying to signal.

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#90130 - 04/01/07 04:29 PM Re: My first PSK [Re: MDinana]
billym Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 616
Loc: Oakland, California
Try a book store for the frensel lens.

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#90134 - 04/01/07 04:44 PM Re: My first PSK [Re: billym]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Or the stationary section of a major drug store, like Rite Aid...
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OBG

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