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#89136 - 03/22/07 01:50 PM Re: Boy Scout EDC [Re: KG2V]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
kc2ixe, I'm impressed!

When I was in CAP as a kid, we always made fun of the Scouts because they didn't have things like inspection, pushups or strictly enforced uniform regs. And they wet their beds, I was told. On the other hand, they didn't have to carry a brick around for the rest of the meeting if they failed inspection...

For a small kid, the whistle would be the #1 item. I hate things around my neck, so I tie the lanyard to the top button hole on my shirt and put the whistle in my breast pocket. You should shorten or braid the lanyard. You can also make it more a part of the uniform by hanging the whistle itself from the pocket button instead of putting it in the pocket.

If you're caught without it - BRICK!
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#89138 - 03/22/07 02:28 PM Re: Boy Scout EDC [Re: Seeker890]
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
Quote:
We do not allow youth to carry lighters at any time. The patrol boxes have them for lighting stoves and lanterns. There have been too many cases of disposable lighters exploding from a sharp impact. A former scoutmaster had seen pictures of a youth that fell with one in his shirt pocket. It has been a troop policy ever since.


This surprises me. I suppose it is possible for a disposable lighter to detonate from an impact but I imagine the odds are astronomical. I'd bet that in order for any such detonation to occur the lighter would have to be heated up 'til it almost melted. At any rate, the odds of a Scout getting lost and needing to build a fire quickly far outweigh the dangers of exploding Bics. If you are dead set against them, a good alternative would be REI Stormproof Matches. If the Scout is skilled enough then maybe a firesteel. The important thing is that they always carry something.

Requiring the scouts to have a chit to carry a knife or firemaking materials is fine, as long as each Scout knows that without those chits they can't carry them, and without carrying them they stay at home. Sounds harsh I know, but so is hypothermia and death.

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#89140 - 03/22/07 02:53 PM Re: Boy Scout EDC [Re: thseng]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...If you're caught without it - BRICK..."

I sadly suspect that in todays politically correct world, some parent would protest that this was demeaning to his/her overweightoutofshapeunderprepared kid, an attorney or three would get involved, etc etc etc.

Kind of like metal shop in my high school. If you ever left the chuck key in the chuck of a metal lathe (without your hand on it), and the teacher saw it, you were made "creap of the week." Along with the title came the fun job of cleaning the drip pans under all of the tools at the end of the day for a week. Then, quite a few years later, some parent didn't like Little Johnny being called that. Today, same school, no metal shop at all...
_________________________
OBG

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#89145 - 03/22/07 03:14 PM Re: Boy Scout EDC [Re: norad45]
jamesraykenney Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 315
Loc: Beaumont, TX USA
Originally Posted By: norad45
As an absolute minimum, and assuming adequate clothing and a plentiful supply of water:

AMK Heatsheet
Mini-Bic lighter x 2
Pre-made tinder
Photon III
SAK or small Multitool
Whistle
Mirror
15' paracord


If the kids are responsible enough to go on a campout then they should be required to be on their honor to carry at least this much at all times.





Actually, there needs to be an exception to that... When they are swimming or bathing... Or in some kind of emergency...

Now you might think that this is obvious, but it SHOULD be spelled out, and SPECIFICALLY mentioned that it is allowed...

Why, you might ask???

For a VERY important reason...

You are asking them to 'be on their honor' to do something ALLWAYS, but knowing that they are NOT expected to do it ALWAYS...
This leads people(not just kids) to think that their 'honor' is only a 'sometimes' thing, and that it has unwritten exceptions...
This should never be the case...

That is one of the reasons that I think is is VERY counterproductive to have laws on the book, that everyone ignores, and that are almost(or completely) unenforced...
It leads to a disrespect for the law, both by the people that break them, and by everyone that watches them being broken every day...

Honor is one of the most important things that Scouting teaches, and it should not be undermined for no(or little) reason...
Honor is not taught in the schools anymore, and most of the time, not at home either...

I sometimes find myself slipping...
It is easy to keep your word, when it is important, if you have any honor at all, but, it is when it is UNIMPORTANT, that honor shows most of all...

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#89148 - 03/22/07 03:29 PM Re: Boy Scout EDC [Re: NightHiker]
jamesraykenney Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 315
Loc: Beaumont, TX USA
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
Originally Posted By: big_al
I have just checked thru My BSA Handbook ( 1988 vintage ) and there is no Survival subject in the book, not even listed in the index,


I think that the BSA Field Guide has recommendations of contents of a survival kit (in the SAR section maybe?) but I'm not sure, I'll have to check my son's when I get home.

As long as they can cover the areas critical to a short-term misadventure:
- First Aid
- Fire Starting
- Shelter Building
- Signaling

Our scouts discussion at last nights meeting centered around the need to S.T.O.P. and realize that very soon they would be missed and a search started (we do frequent buddy checks/head counts when outdoors). All they have to do is to stay put (make a shleter and fire if necessary), make noise, and as long as they haven't wandered too far, they WILL be found fairly soon. They were also astute enough to realize that it is almost always scouts that are by themselves that get into trouble and that the buddy system is essential.


Look at the year of the book he has...
Wasn't that during the time when the BSA decided that they needed to switch from emphasizing the outdoors, to more 'urban' activities, so that more kids would be interested in joining...
They did not realize that the kids they were trying to recruit, wanted something DIFFERENT than the 'urban' things that they did every day, and their membership dropped...
From what I understand, and from what I saw in a current handbook, they have started to move back to an outdoors emphasis...
They even have reprints of their FIRST handbook!!!
Now, THAT is in interesting book...
BTW, if you have not ever been to a BSA office, do so, if for nothing more than to pick up some of their fire steels(which are GREAT and small enough to have on you always).
Look at their book selection, they have some interesting stuff that might surprise you...

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#89150 - 03/22/07 03:49 PM Re: Boy Scout EDC [Re: jamesraykenney]
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
Of course there will be common sense exceptions. Even the Scout Oath requires the Scout swear only to "do my best." I actually think there should be very little wriggle room when it comes to carrying gear. If you prefer, then you could require them on their honor to always carry their survival gear "unless circumstances make it impossible to do so." The important thing is, if they are caught without their survival gear without some compelling reason, that there will be consequences. I would send them home--it's that important.

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#89151 - 03/22/07 04:01 PM Re: Boy Scout EDC [Re: NightHiker]
jamesraykenney Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 315
Loc: Beaumont, TX USA
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
Originally Posted By: big_al
I have just checked thru My BSA Handbook ( 1988 vintage ) and there is no Survival subject in the book, not even listed in the index,


I think that the BSA Field Guide has recommendations of contents of a survival kit (in the SAR section maybe?) but I'm not sure, I'll have to check my son's when I get home.

As long as they can cover the areas critical to a short-term misadventure:
- First Aid
- Fire Starting
- Shelter Building
- Signaling

Our scouts discussion at last nights meeting centered around the need to S.T.O.P. and realize that very soon they would be missed and a search started (we do frequent buddy checks/head counts when outdoors). All they have to do is to stay put (make a shleter and fire if necessary), make noise, and as long as they haven't wandered too far, they WILL be found fairly soon. They were also astute enough to realize that it is almost always scouts that are by themselves that get into trouble and that the buddy system is essential.


Look at the year of the book he has...
Wasn't that during the time when the BSA decided that they needed to switch from emphasizing the outdoors, to more 'urban' activities, so that more kids would be interested in joining...
They did not realize that the kids they were trying to recruit, wanted something DIFFERENT than the 'urban' things that they did every day, and their membership dropped...
From what I understand, and from what I saw in a current handbook, they have started to move back to an outdoors emphasis...
They even have reprints of their FIRST handbook!!!
Now, THAT is in interesting book...
BTW, if you have not ever been to a BSA office, do so, if for nothing more than to pick up some of their fire steels(which are GREAT and small enough to have on you always).
Look at their book selection, they have some interesting stuff that might surprise you...

Top
#89161 - 03/22/07 05:26 PM Re: Boy Scout EDC [Re: norad45]
Seeker890 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/19/06
Posts: 93
Loc: Central Ohio
I have never blown a lighter up, but I found the following:

Snopes.com has an article that debunked a spark from welding causing one to blow up, but then goes on to say that they do indeed blow up from heat, and have blown up in peoples pockets.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/lighters.asp

MythBusters did a segment where they couldn't make one explode.

Canada customs agents confiscate certain lighters they say explode:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2000/11/06/lighters001106.html

Adults may carry lighters, not youth. Matches and hotsparks are OK.

BSA policy is to make sure the boys have safety training before carrying knives and matches, therefore the chip & chit requirement. We usually try to get all the new scouts through the training the first campout. After that, any unsafe act gets a corner off the card. Not carrying the card when carrying the material will get a corner off the card (when it can next be found). When all four corners are missing, back to training to earn a new card.
_________________________
The Seeker

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#89166 - 03/22/07 05:57 PM Re: Boy Scout EDC [Re: Seeker890]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: Seeker890
I have never blown a lighter up, but I found the following:

Snopes.com has an article that debunked a spark from welding causing one to blow up, but then goes on to say that they do indeed blow up from heat, and have blown up in peoples pockets.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/lighters.asp

MythBusters did a segment where they couldn't make one explode.

Canada customs agents confiscate certain lighters they say explode:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2000/11/06/lighters001106.html


Funny story about that. My father has a fabricator/welder that comes to his shop when he needs something made or fixed that he can't do himself. I was talking to the guy about how I heard welders don't carry BIC lighters anymore because a spark can cause them to explode. He proceeded to pull out his BIC lighter and put his lit cigarette out on the side of it (much to my horror). I guess he didn't really care. grin

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#89168 - 03/22/07 06:15 PM Re: Boy Scout EDC [Re: Paul810]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
A butane lighter can’t explode “like a stick of dynamite”. It contains fuel but no oxygen or oxidizer. The fuel can only burn as fast as it comes in contact with air. Now, if you put a hole in the side and add a source of ignition you may have a big jet of flame, but no explosion. I threw a lighter into a campfire once, and as soon as a small hole was melted through it flew a few feet into the air under the pressure of escaping fuel and that was it.

The alleged problem seems to be crud from the flint getting into the valve mechanism and keeping it partially open. You put it in your pocket and your clothing becomes saturated with gaseous fuel, which could cause burns if ignited.
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

Top
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