I've been reading this thread about some lost hunters and the after action report about the search for the Kim family. In both instances it seems like a map could have really saved the day.

Of course, a good map (that showed just how mountainous Bear Camp road really was) might have kept the Kims from getting lost in the first place. But even if they'd chosen to try to drive the road, a good map could have saved James Kim's life. According to Kati Kim, "James left us with the belief that there was a town called Galice only about four miles from our camp." Galice was actually 13 miles away. Had he known the true distance, he might have chosen to stay with his family and been rescued with them two days later.

The tale of the lost hunters in Idaho has a similar situation. Jenifer Burkey died after a failed attempt to walk to a town that a road sign indicated could be nearby. A much shorter walk in the opposite direction would have taken them to a state highway where they could have flagged down a passing motorist. In both these cases a map could literally have saved people's lives.

Despite this, I rarely see maps included in listings of survival gear on this site. Of course, this could be because, unlike other items in a survival kit, maps have to be customized to a particular locale, rather than being widely useful in a variety of locations. Or it could be that maps are simply such an obvious item that nobody feels the need to list them. I certainly wouldn't go on any sort of hike, backback, or other backcountry activity without a good topo map (USGS quadrangle or equivalent). However, I've never really taken the same precautions whn on a car trip. A state highway map or Rand McNally road atlas has always been good enough for me. The Kim family had an Oregon state highway map, but it wasn't detailed enough to either get across the dangers of their proposed route, or allow them to figure out how far it was to Galice. Carrying quad maps for everywhere I might go on a long trip by car would probably be prohibitive in terms of space (and cost). I have regularly carried a DeLorme state topo atlas (1:250,000 topo maps of the entire state) for my home states (Utah and Arizona). I got them more for trip planning purposes than survival, but after reading these stories I think they would be very useful in a survival situation as well. Not as good as quads, but a lot more practical for covering a lot of area. I'll have to think about getting some more for other states where I'll be travelling by car (according to their website, they've got them for the entire U.S.). After reading about these people's experiences, a state highway map just doesn't seem sufficient at this point.

I couldn't agree more. My wife and I have been accused of having a map fettish, but we really like to have a decent map of where ever we happen to be. The only problem is that, living full time in a RV and bouncing around the country, we just can not have a really good map of everywhere we happen to be. So we carry a US atlas and program our GPS with the area we are going to be (including, but not limited to, streets and highways, topo lines, cities and towns, gas stations, etc). If we are in an area for an extended period of time, we will get more detailed maps of that area. For our current spot we now have four different "road maps," and USGS topo. When we leave we usually donate the maps to the park we have been volunteering at...

I heartily agree that maps a not only fun, but they are vital to navigating through this world.

I see a map, a compass, a UTM grid, and a GPS as a powerful foursome, given the knowledge to use them together properly.

"a good map could have saved James Kim's life"

While I'll agree that a VERY good map might have prevented the Kims from driving down those back roads - or even from attempting to drive on those roads (I understand they did have Google maps, but there is some debate as to thier accuracy), a map alone probably wouldn't have helped much. They had a very poor estimate of exactly where they were. In my view, if they'd had a maping GPS or a GPS, UTM grid and a map, then they'd have known how far it was to the nearest town and Jim might not have tried to make the walk, but then again, he might still have tried to walk to help.

I never go anywhere without a map available. In the car, that would be a street atlas or maybe a traditional folded local map. When hiking, a topo map of the area. Hiking also requires a compass, and usually I take my GPS too. I can't imagine venturing out anywhere without something so basic. Even when I hike in the foothills and can SEE the town from the trails.

Have I ever gotten lost (hiking)? No. That's probably because I study maps of where I'm going before striking out. And if the terrain is at all confusing, I verify my location on the map frequently while hiking. That is often unnecessary. I tend to hike in the mountains where there are major terrain features that hem me in to an area where I can easily approximate a location. But I still take the maps and know how to use them with compass and GPS. Always.

A map of the area where I will be hiking is always left at home with my planned route highlighted and occasionally with a written description of my plan (e.g., "Park car at XYZ trailhead. Procede up ABC drainage, branch off at ZZZ stream and climb the NE slope of QQQ mountain to the summit, backtracking same route on my return.") It's fairly unlikely that I won't have a good idea of my location at any given time, but my goal is for OTHERS to be able to deduce my likely location should I end up not checking in as expected (due to injury, etc.)

I've been trying to find someplace that I can print maps from, and save them and add some of my own notes to before printing.

I too have been looking for something like this, and not have found any thing that is worth the ink to print it.

Me either. I play around with a lot of mapping sites, but all I can print on is 8.5x11, and with that you get such a small area, or small scale, it is worthless.

I wanted a topo of the area we are in now, no stores in the area had one, so I ended up ordering from USGS, map was $6, shipping was $5,which will give you an idea how badly I wanted it...

I still like the VFR charts. They have decent topographics, gravel to paved super highways, RR right-of-ways, Lat/Long ticks, terrain features, elevations, etc. They are on a good scale and can be gotten at virtually any airport. It's been a long time since I had to buy one but the price had always been reasonable.
Check them out!!!

Like Blackeagle mentioned above, I too have been carrying one of the DeLorme state atlases. I have found them to be very accurate, at least the one for Missouri is. Money well spent, I would not hesitate to purchase another.
Missouri Atlas & Gazetteer

smitty

Amazing. I worked in Base Ops and/or the control tower for four years, had aeronautical charts all over the place, and never thought of using one for anything but flying. You do indeed learn something new every day...

If you have a university nearby, ask (or look at their website) to see if they have a map library. All the universities I've attended have a full set of USGS quads for their state and some coverage of adjacent states. They generally don't let you check maps out, but they usually have xerox machines handy (bring lots of quarters).

I carry 3 VFR charts in my BOB and those 3 charts cover an area from just west of Houston to just east of New Orleans and north to the Arkansas/Missouri border. This allows me plenty of options to avoid problem areas.

Thanks.

In the bad old days (pre-retirement) I had semi-access to a copier about four feet wide, with paper that fed off of a roll. So if I could buy, beg, borrow, or steal a topo I could make a bunch of copies of it. Black and white, but for free who cares...

I grew up learning how to read maps. (Amazing but true: there are a large number of people who are incapable of reading a highway map, let alone a topo. I've met a lot of them.) For me, navigating by map and compass seems so ordinary and simple, I can't imagine not being able to!

For me, the advent of GPS technology wasn't all that earth-shattering. What I use it for is to provide me a means to plot my exact location on my map, and then it gets shut off. The more important thing, to me, is the little UTM grid tool! How did I do without that for so long?!?

I've not really found a use for the breadcrumb and map features on a GPS; perhaps I'm missing something? It just seems easier to look at my map to see where I've been!

The major downfall I see with the map-enabled GPS is the lack of context. Yes, you can zoom in to take a look at map detail, but the small screen means that you can't see the layout of the land; you can't see the ridge between you and the destination, and it's difficult to derive meaningful distance references. I can look at a quad, and tell "that's about an hour walk", but with a GPS, that ability is lost. Without knowing the scale at which the zoom is displayed, and without being able to see the likely path, I can understand how people equipped only with a GPS are able to get lost.

Regarding DeLorme atlases, my experience with the Oregon edition is that it's terribly inaccurate, showing roads that aren't there and sometimes not showing roads that are. I've found the Benchmark atlas, at least for this state, to be better in that regard. It's also a much better choice for non-map-savvy people (like my wife), because it shows terrain features in shaded relief which is much clearer than the DeLorme.

-=[ Grant ]=-

A guy in my SAR team turned me on to a company online that scales the map to your printer. Ok, let me explain; the name of the companyt is called maptech.com (I have no affiliation with them, other than using them for SAR), and they have scanned every topo map available in the US into a DB. Now, normally, when you print a topo out, it isnt to correct scale. Unless, of course, you fiddle with the printer properties. Well, this program will print out the topo to the exact scale thats on the map. So, you can pull it off your printer, & take it right into the field. Again, I have only used them with SAR, and they worked great. I am heistant about forking over $100 for a program right now. So, this may wait, for me anyway, for a while.

A map ( even a simple non-topo one) with a compas are great tools for getting un-lost. I always pick up the free one at the ranger station when I go hiking.

Teacher

Forgive my ignorance but where can you buy these VFR maps?

Here is one source. If you do a google search for "aeronautical charts" you will find a lot more sources. I once got a two sided one that covered all of California for FREE. I just don't remember exactly where I got it. Large scale to be sure, but it was FREE. You could also go to any decent sized airport's operations building, or possibly a aviation supply type store...

http://libremap.org/data/

Every topo of every state right at your fingertips.

Check out MyTopo. I got some custom topos from them for the places I hike most frequently. UTM grid, lat/lon ticks, then scaled/centered/shaded to my preferences.

The cost adds up if you want lots of maps, but how else are you going to print 24"x36" (or whatever) on your home computer on waterproof paper?

USGS.gov is a good source for topo maps. They also have a dealer loacator that lists outlets where you can go buy them.

Another fan of Mytopo.com here. I have used several of their maps and have been very happy with them. I also use DeLorme Topo. I have some real issues with this software but it seems to be the best product available at this time. I also carry the Delorme state atlas in my truck.
I live along the South Carolina coast I have a bug out kit for the family and another for myself (I have to stay during storms). Included in both kits is a family emergency book that includes maps. Mine has detailed waterproof maps to aid me in getting home after the storm.
I grew up in the Sierra Nevada mountians and learned quickly that you always take a map, compass, GPS and the knowlage to use them when you go into the woods. Take a little common sense with you as well, it just might save your life.

If there is a military base with a runway near you give them a call and see if you can have any visual flight rules (VFR) charts that are going to be thrown away. These charts/maps are unclassified and get tossed in the garbage every time a new version is printed.

The changes would most likely be insignificant to anyone who needs the chart for bugging out purposes. The pilots toss them because often times the change is due to the addition of a new radio tower in the area, change to one of the airways/jetways, etc. These changes do not really impact folks using the charts on the ground.

Local Fixed Based Operators (FBOs), the small local airports that usually support recreational flying and corporate jets, will also give away the old VFR charts if you ask.

Link to viewer:
http://nmviewogc.cr.usgs.gov/viewer.htm

I use this site to plan trips. Topo as well as arial photos. (plus lots more).

My first post…

Hallo everybody!
There are a few more things to do with a topo map then orienteering yourself in the outdoors.
On vacation or in case of an emergency you can:
- Use the map on top of a not so warm sleeping bag as a heat shield / windchill protector.
- Same use if you have only your clothes to sleep in or to cover other less equipped people.
-Use it as a windscreen if you are building a fire in windy conditions or for an alcohol- / gas stove.
-Use it as a splint or part to construct a splint.
- Use it to chase and kill bugs.
- Use it for fanning air in your face or in a fire.
- Use it as wrap / cushion for fragile items you found on your way.
- Use it as warming layer and windchill protector under clothing.

If it has a white backside you can also:
-Reflect light and heat from your campfire into a shelter.
-Reflect light in shady spots while taking photos.
-Use the backside as a high contrast background (good if you have do delicate work in lowlight conditions with older eyes or having lost your seeing aid).
-As white and rectangular stands out in most natural environments, you can use it as a signal and message pad for SAR personal. (Only if it is a map of another place and you don’t need it for other purposes).
-Write your log/journal/last will on the backside.
-Cut off the unimprinted rims and/or parts of the map you do not need in the field for various uses you need paper for.

So we see a map is one of the two most useful paper items one can have while travelling, the other is a Newspaper in my opinion. But that will be another thread...

Does it do the dishes too?
I'm sold.

Careful, topo maps do burn, you know.

Welcome.

And after the newpaper post will come the one on TP, right? It's a pretty useful piece of paper also...