Yesterday I bought a Gerber Paraframe 1 at a K-Mart for EDC. I liked its size, style of blade, read a few good reviews about it, the price was right, etc, but thats not the point. They carded me! It turns out you have to be 18 to buy a knife at K-Mart! Luckily for me, this wasn't a problem, I handed the checker my ID and I was on my way. I was just a little blown away by the age restriction, it wasn't like I was buying a Rambo knife to kill people with or anything.

Is this just K-Mart policy or Oregon / Federal law? Either way it must be new, I don't recall ever being carded before while buying a pocket knife. I guess this means Boy Scouts can't buy their own knives anymore? Sorry, I was rather upset by this and had to vent, though I would love to hear some other thoughts on the matter.

Rio

Rio, are you a parent?

Generally, buying a knife is a restricted item to those over the age of 18, unless accompanied by a parent/legal guardian. I, for one think this is a good thing and do not have a problem limiting/restricting knife sales to adults over 18.

I also have no problem with a minor carrying and using a knife properly, providing they will treat the privilege with the associated respect and training. However, as a parent I want to know what my kids are buying, so I can ensure they receive the proper training and understand my expectations of proper knife handling.

Pete

Thank you for reminding me of the parents point of view. I'm only a 20 year old college student, and am currently more concerned about my personal freedoms than looking out for my future children. My views of this subject may very well change when I enter parenthood. All of the knives I had bought back when I was in the Scouts were finally wearing out and needed replacing, so this was my first knife purchase in a few years. I guess thinking back while buying all of my previous knives, my parents were probably with me, being as how I was not old enough to drive myself to the store. I've EDCed a small pocket knife since I was about 10, so being carded for buying one just seemed strange. Though you make a very good point about receiving the proper safety training before I was allowed to carry a knife.

Rio

I't mostly a CYA thing, although some states have thier requirements. It stems partially from a couple of young feral humans, males, about 16, who broke into the home of a couple of Dartmouth College professors and killed them for the thrills. They used knives they'd ordered online, and someone talked about trying to after the seller of the knife, but they were told that wouldn't get very far around here.

Illinois has what I perceive to be a pretty good knife law. They don't limit what you can carry - for the most part (some silly restrictions such as daggers), but if you use it while committing a felony, then it may be considered a lethal weapon.

That said, a minor puchasing a knife could - depending on their intent - be purchasing a weapon. Yeah, I know that sounds kind of "out there".

I don't know if this is law or store policy, but being the parent of two fine young kids (very responsible, both in Scouting, both taught knife safety since Cub Scouts - even though one is a young lady - she was taught at the same time as my son), I like that the law or policy would have me, as a parent, involved in the purchase. I know my children, and I wouldn't hesitate to approve a purchase, but they allow me to make that decision.

I have had the same experience Rio. I've been on both sides of that gate. I'm 33 now and also live in Oregon. I started getting carded for Matches, Ammunition, Knives, spray paint, frog gigs and who knows what else when I was about 12. I still get carded every time I buy shotgun shells from Bi-Mart. But I don’t mind.

Although it could be a law somewhere, I think it is more a company policy issue. The problem, in my most humble opinion is Money and it’s relation to legal fallout. While most of us who read this forum feel if you cut your arm off using a knife, you either did it on purpose or did something stupid. Maybe both. It's not K-Mart's fault I’m an idiot right? Or Gerber's. But some folks in our society don’t appear to think this way. Because of those people, companies like K-Mart put policies in place to protect themselves. I would even expect Gerber has an 18 and over clause in their contract to supply K-Mart with knives.

Say Company X sold a Cub Scout a pocket knife. In a fit of rage that kid stabbed one of his fellow scouts over a stolen marshmallow stick. Company X was sued for $10 million because the parents of the kid didn’t know he had the knife. Then the parents of the victim sue for another $10 million. Crazy? Excessive? In many cases… absolutely. But it’s possible. People blame others all the time then sue for ridiculous amounts and win.

When I got carded as a kid, it didn’t bother me all that much either. It was a pain, but I knew my parents would pick that kind of stuff up for me. I was a responsible kid (for the most part) and owning a knife or playing with matches was a dangerous privilege I earned. Not to mention it’s a nice thing for parents to have an extra set of eyes on what their kids are doing (or other people’s kids for that matter!). Yes, it sucks for the under 18 group, and a minor inconvenience for you and me but in my opinion it’s a product of the environment we live in. And I for one have no clue how to fix something so far gone. But that’s another topic for another time.

m

Since I'm at an age where I have socks that are older than that it doesn't apply to me. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Probably some sort of CYA thing though. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Silly law. The Nanny States of America.

Common sense in America is anything but common.

Does your state require a parent or guardian sign off on a drivers license?

Me too. With all the cold weather hanging in CA, I pulled some wool socks from stash and tried to remember when I bought them -- early 80's.

As for the knife, it's a litigious society. At least we can still buy knives. . .

Taught my kids (3 - now thirtyish) how to build a knife. Don't need to ask permission to do that, I guess. Should have seen the looks when my oldest (girl) went to Harvard and pulled out her shiv to open a box on moving day! Almost equal to the looks my son (#2) got when he hung up his skunk pelt in his room at Johns Hopkins! <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
These kids all got keychain survival kits for their Christmas this year that their Old Man made up.

Yes, my state requires a parent/guardian's permission for a driver's license - and much more.

For details see http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/drivers/programs/gdl.html#initial

Times sure have changed, but as a parent I see it is necessary in some ways, but not all.

Lets compare then and now and you be the judge.

Year:1975

I just waltzed right into a store called "American Merchandise" and bought a cheap $1 non-locking pocketknife when I was 10. It was my first new knife purchase. I had already owned one and knew how to sharpen them, my Grandad taught me. My parents didn't worry, even if I toted it.

Year: 2006

I bought the right lockblade folding knife ($35-40) for my son for scouts last year when he was 10 and he was taught safely how to use it in boyscouts and by myself. He owned one cheaper similar model, but his mother (my ex) understandably wouldn't hardly let him put his hands on it unless he was with me. He is just learning how to sharpen his new knife. His mother took a while to adjust to him having his own knife. It has to be somewhat of a ritual I guess if he is to transport it somewhere.

I guess I'm lucky. I rode my bike to the local (and only) sporting goods store in town and bought a Western Cutlery
4 inch hunting knife when I was about 12 (still have it too), no ID required, no parent required, and I only used it for cleaning and skinning deer, cleaning fish, trimming my fingernails, whittleling, and occasionally nicking my finger. Never even thought about sticking the class bully with it. And just about every boy carried some kind of knife to school every day, with everyones implied permission. Different era I guess...

As a parent I can some what understand wanting to know what your kids are buying.
But I also remember buying a lot of things that my folks knew nothing about until they found it, or I cut my self with it or my personal favorite, blew my self up with it. And after one or all of those thing happened, they never took the item from me. It makes me wonder now if they just trusted me that much or was hopping that I would do myself in so they would not have to feed me any more.

Aloha Mike,

I don't mean to jack the thread, but I would really like to know what is in the keychains you made up for your kids.

Perhaps you can PM me or start a new thread as I am sure I am not the only one who would like to know.

Mahalo everyone.

I guess the driving was perhaps a poor analogy.

In Alabama, the age of medical consent is 14. Meaning your daughter can go to the doc and buy birth control pills and be forbidden by law to tell you, even though you are responsible for the medical bills.

Yet, at the same time, another state cracks down on a pocket knife.

No common sense left anymore.


ETA
I am a father of four.

I too purchased pocketknives without my parents when I was a kid/teen and carried a pocketknife (including to school) since I was around 9 years old (my Cub Scout knife). Despite getting into the routine fights usually with my friends, I would have never considered pulling out my knife to use as a weapon, just not part of our mentality for settling things, fistfights and the occasional mud clod war.

Today, things are very different, most schools have a zero tolerance policy for any kind of knife (due to the actions of a few), which, depending upon the school may even include a nail file. We can decry the current state of affairs with these excessive policies and loss of common sense, but often, it is same lot us who will also decry the lack of parental oversight when things go wrong.

It is sometimes difficult to rectify or balance personal responsibility (of the kids) with parental responsibility. As a parent, I feel very strongly, that it is my responsibility and my primary responsibility to instill in my kids the knowledge of right from wrong. However, I can tell you from personal experience, including my own actions, kids/teens do not always make the right/thoughtful/intelligent decision and require guidance.

Balancing privileges, rights and responsibilities for our kids is not always easy and I would rather air on the side of caution and know what my kids are doing (in their business/bee’s wax), including consumer purchases, then be one of those parents, who are shocked when their kid is arrested for whatever.

Indeed it is a different generation.

Just my 2 cents-
Pete

I agree with you 100 percent, Pete. I toted knives as a kid and got into plenty of brawls using my fists and pulling my knife was out of the question. Its a whole different generation and the degradation of the morality of the nation overall has to be blamed, not the kids. How we raise our children has so much to do with it. I see many people who learn from their mistakes when their first child turns out to be a demon and they raise their next child right who turns out to be totally different. My son can probably stomp most any kid's butt he's around and is big for his age and is a red senior (one step below black belt) in Taikwondo or however you spell it. But he attends church weekly, and has the brains to just turn around and walk away when confronted by some idiot at school because he knows THEY are not worth his satisfaction, and there is no telling what they might pull out of their pocket.