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#74662 - 10/10/06 08:41 AM Re: Continuing the water theme
tranx Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/15/01
Posts: 35
Loc: Belgium
Hello,

I recently read an article in a local newspaper stating that even factory filled plastic bottles are not very safe. The closer you get to the "best before" date, the more "poison" is in the bottle. So keeping the water until the "best before" date migt not be the best idea.

Using and rotating the water as stated by someone else in this thread might be a better idea. Or not using plastic containers (or another type of plastic?).

I found an article about the subject on the net.

The poison lurking in your plastic water bottle
By JO KNOWSLEY, Daily Mail

Last updated at 08:34am on 13th March 2006

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/ar...in_page_id=1798


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#74663 - 10/10/06 11:14 AM Re: Continuing the water theme
redflare Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 647
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
One can use Water Preserver for any size container, just add less drops.

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#74664 - 10/10/06 11:20 AM Re: Continuing the water theme
redflare Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 647
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
Now that is bad news <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I guess time to invest in a countertop filter. I have been buying all of the water we use in plastic containers.
I wonder if this antimony business is only applicable to clear plastic bottles, since most of the 2.5 gallon jugs come in white opaque containers?

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#74665 - 10/10/06 01:25 PM Re: Continuing the water theme
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1776
the study only shows how much toxins are in the water and what that toxic can do.

Quote:
Small doses of antimony can make you feel ill and depressed. Larger quantities can cause violent vomiting and even death. The study stressed that amounts of antimony were well below official recommended levels. But it also discovered that the levels almost doubled when the bottles were stored for three months.
(from the url you posted: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/ar...in_page_id=1798 )

I have yet to feel ill, depressed nor did i ever had violent vomitting from drinking water from plastic bottles of various age. Nor do i know anybody that has a similair problem.

It might or might not cause something when your exposed to this toxin for long periodes. But it shouldn't be dangerous for waterstorage for emergency, either refilled or bought. I can assure you that not drinking water is much more more dangerous, than drinking form plastic waterbottles.

If you are still afraid for these toxics, studies shows thats plastics like HDPE and LDPE will not leach toxins.
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#74666 - 10/10/06 01:58 PM Re: Continuing the water theme
urbansurvivalist Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 127
Loc: Asheville, NC
I recently purchased a reverse osmosis filter for my kitchen sink, since I realized that it's a lot cheaper in the long run than the Pur faucet mount filter I currently have, and filters it a lot more thorougly.
I wonder how the shelf life of highly filtered, reverse osmosis water compares to tap or bottled water? Since virtually all of the organic matter and minerals are removed(except for carbon, which is added back with a post filter), I'd imagine that there's nothing for the bacteria to feed on and use to reproduce, and therefore I don't know how they could reach a dangerous level. I know that most bottled water is also filtered using reverse osmosis, but I think if you sterilize your container, conditions would actually be more sanitary than at the factory.

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#74667 - 10/10/06 02:53 PM Re: Continuing the water theme
TomApple Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 80
Loc: Suffolk, Va.
Quote:
It might or might not cause something when your exposed to this toxin for long periodes. But it shouldn't be dangerous for waterstorage for emergency, either refilled or bought. I can assure you that not drinking water is much more more dangerous, than drinking form plastic waterbottles.

If you are still afraid for these toxics, studies shows thats plastics like HDPE and LDPE will not leach toxins.


I have had tests performed on emergency drinking water for US Navy life rafts. These are 0.5 liter HDPE-2 bottles. Tests have been performed on samples from five to eight years of age. The type of tests were for Volatile Organics and Base/Neutral/Acids using GC Mass spectrometer tests and also Total Plate Count tests. We tested samples from a Swedish manufacturer and a US mfr. that had sold emergency bottled water to the USN for life raft use.

US Navy life rafts are serviced every five years and we wanted to ensure the safety of the drinking water throughout the service period.

The GCMS tests showed that there were no dangerous levels of any harmful leachates from the HDPE used in the containers. Some bottles from the Swedish mfr. did have high plate counts (5500 and 4300 on two samples) however none of the pathogens were fecal coliform which pose the most hazard to drinking water. The high plate counts were attributable to poor sealing of the containers and not the water quality when bottled.

Both bottled water manufacturers used water run through a reverse osmosis system that had been sterilized in the bottle after sealing by autoclaving (heating) the water to just below boiling point. This method kills any stray germs that may have entered during the bottling process. I understand that some companies fill their bottles with water at just below boiling point and then immediately seal them. This sterilizes the water and the bottle. When the water cools, a slight vacuum is formed causing the bottle to suck in somewhat. A loss of vacuum would indicate that the seal has been compromised.

If you wanted to bottle your own water for long term storage, I would recommend using HDPE/Nalgene bottles and boiling the water prior to filling. The loss of vacuum would be indicate whether sterility may be compromised.

Regards,

Tom

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#74668 - 10/10/06 02:56 PM Re: Continuing the water theme
Malpaso Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 817
Loc: MA
Quite excellent information for post #2! Thanks.
_________________________
It's not that life is so short, it's that you're dead for so long.

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#74669 - 10/10/06 03:38 PM Re: Continuing the water theme
NYC2SoCal Offline
dedicated member

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 117
I take all reports of death be all for those that use plastics, eat beef, eat chicken, etc etc with a grain of salt.. I think I posted here a while back that all, and I mean all research needs to be funded.. These scientists are PAID by big corporations, or they have their own agenda. I heard a doctor recently proclaiming that eating chicken will cause cancer more than eating beef. Something about blah blah blah, cooking to a certain temperature releases blah blah blah which will cause cancer.. Turns out this doctor was also a member of PETA...Whatever...

In regards to the plastics leaking poisons, I believe that was when a high heat was applied to the plastic.. when I say high, I mean boiling point high (212*F or 100*C)

Reverse Osmosis.. I have one and it's great.. I actually have a TDS (Total Disolved Solids) Meter gadget thing.. Water coming out of the faucet is around 300 ppm.. Costco brand water is around 36 ppm.. My RO is around 10 ppm.. Distilled water, as expected is 0 ppm. So an RO is defintely effective and better than most bottled "drinking" water... I store alot of costco water, because 36 ppm is not bad.. I also buy alot of distilled water (usually have 15 gallons at home). The only question I have is what are those 10 parts in my RO water? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh, I actually use my TDS Meter to tell me when to replace the filter.. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#74670 - 10/10/06 03:46 PM Re: Continuing the water theme
NYC2SoCal Offline
dedicated member

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 117
Oh, I forgot to mention.. That does not mean your RO is 10 ppm.. It really depends on how your water coming in is.. I notice that when the ppm increases in my tap water, my RO water also increases.. So if we look at proportionate numbers, if your tap is lets say 600 ppm, its possible your RO will be 20 ppm or higher.. etc

I actually test my water monthly.. fill 3 glasses, 1 RO, 1 Distilled, and 1 Tap.. Clear the instrument by measuring the distilled (0).. Measure the RO, clear again in the distilled (0), measure in Tap, then clean in distilled. I then take 1-(RO ppm / TAP ppm) and get a percentage of effectiveness.. I get around 96-97% most of the time

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#74671 - 10/10/06 04:57 PM Re: Continuing the water theme
Alan_Romania Offline

Addict

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 631
Loc: Arizona
I maintain adequate water stores at my house in three ways. First, I usually keep about 30 gallons of water in a combination of 24 oz, 1 gal and 2.5 gal drinking water containers. We rotate through this on a bi-monthly basis, added to this we have a significant amount of Gatorade Endurance on hand as well. Second, I have 10, 5-7 gallon water container that contain RO filtered water and water stabilizer (similar to what Red Flare is selling). These are cycled about every year as they are the water containers I bring to events and camping with me. Finally, I did what Doug suggested... Upgraded to a 80gal water heater and added a second one… so I have 160 gallons of clean water in my garage that is cycled daily!
_________________________
"Trust in God --and press-check. You cannot ignore danger and call it faith." -Duke

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