#74148 - 09/29/06 04:22 PM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Registered: 04/24/06
Posts: 398
Loc: Tennessee
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When it comes to situations like that, it kind of looks like unexplored territory America is venturing into while depending on untrained TSA employees to explore it for us.
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Me, a vegetarian? My set of teeth came with canines.
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#74150 - 09/29/06 07:23 PM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Enthusiast
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 285
Loc: NY USA
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The screener was probably worried about something happening & getting fired over it. This seems to be the trend these days. Got a problem with an employee howerver slight; fire him. There are plenty more where he came from.
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#74151 - 09/29/06 07:29 PM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Old Hand
Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 817
Loc: MA
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Exactly what did this passenger expect? He was obviously looking for a reaction, and he got one. Maybe not the one he wanted, but a reaction nonetheless.
Did he have a right to express his opinion? Absolutely. Did the TSA rep and supervisor have the right to detain him? Absolutely as well.
I'm no fan of TSA policies, but I'm even less a fan of people who knowingly cause a disturbance, and then wonder why they're in the jackpot.
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It's not that life is so short, it's that you're dead for so long.
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#74153 - 09/30/06 12:43 AM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
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Hmm, I don't think I can agree with that statement either, sorry. They did not have sufficient cause for deliberate detention because no threat was communicated. I believe if the opinionated traveller pursues the issue properly, there will be a likely discplinary act promulgated on the supervisor. I've seen my share of supervisors get sacked too; they are also easily replaceable.
Unless you are judge sitting in a courtroom, I don't believe anyone gets to detain someone just because they don't share the same opinion. In a courtroom, that would be contempt, but that is the exception to the rule. (Well, except for when you mouth off to the DI that is, then you get detained in the forward leaning rest position for a while).
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)
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#74154 - 09/30/06 02:49 AM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
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It was bound to happen. Someone, somewhere, finally had to point out the basic truth about the emperor's new clothes.
Ten years ago, there was no thoughtcrime in this country.
_________________________
-IronRaven
When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.
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#74156 - 09/30/06 08:26 PM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Veteran
Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
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What he should do is sue for breach of his right to freedom of speech. What that supervisor has said in effect is that the Bill of Rights does not apply there. That should give the Court's a serious conniption fit. If Mr Hawley wants to take exception to that comment, he can of course sue for libel.
Go on, please................ <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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I don't do dumb & helpless.
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#74157 - 09/30/06 09:24 PM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Old Hand
Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
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To sue for libel wouldn't he have to be able to prove that the statement was false?
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#74158 - 09/30/06 10:59 PM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Old Hand
Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 763
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its seems there are alot of stupid incidents since TSA implement new regulations.
does this mean pasengers will be affected too? what happend if we write this TSA head is stupid, will TSA arrest us ?
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#74159 - 09/30/06 11:37 PM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Old Hand
Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 817
Loc: MA
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They did not have sufficient cause for deliberate detention because no threat was communicated. De jure and de facto are two widely different worlds. Try putting a sign in the rear window of your car that says "cops are stupid" and see if you don't get "detained".
_________________________
It's not that life is so short, it's that you're dead for so long.
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#74160 - 10/01/06 01:52 AM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
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you're absolutely correct. Abuse of power abounds these days.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)
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#74161 - 10/01/06 03:17 AM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
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No, Citizen, you aren't under arrest. You are just won a trip to a Relaxation and Therapy Facility administered by the Department of Re-education.... What, no, it isn't a school, it's a spa- it won't have any effect on your student debts.
_________________________
-IronRaven
When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.
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#74162 - 10/01/06 06:24 AM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Enthusiast
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 285
Loc: NY USA
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There is no breach of freedom of speech. The TSA is just saying that a person who states negative things about the TSA may want to take things a step further, thus the investigation.
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#74163 - 10/01/06 03:16 PM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Veteran
Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
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Yes there is. The right to tell someone that you think he is an idiot is a fundamental cornerstone of democracy. TWA are saying, in effect, that any criticism of TWA, it's Director or staff will result in detention. Wait untill someone gives one of those idiot's a parade ground perfect Nazi salute.
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I don't do dumb & helpless.
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#74164 - 10/01/06 04:06 PM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Registered: 04/24/06
Posts: 398
Loc: Tennessee
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Uh, TSA, not TWA.
Yep, it is a basic rule of the study of criminal justice that "Those who stay in power will eventually abuse that power." Just look at most politicians. The same goes for many jobs, including the TSA employees, apparently. BTW, just food for thought, try to look at this situation from an entirely security vs. rights viewpoint: (hard, ain't it, if you know the whole story)
I think he was wanting it to happen, judging from reports of his behavior, but look what happened to the foriegn minister of Venezuela just a few days back. Was that a set up by him or abuse by the TSA or deeper? The Habla Espanol press was on call and handy I heard.
_________________________
Me, a vegetarian? My set of teeth came with canines.
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#74165 - 10/03/06 04:53 AM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Geezer
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
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I wonder what would happen if the next two or three hundred people going through the security check in that Milwaukee airport had 'Kip Brawley is an idiot' written on their clear plastic bags, their luggage, the front of their t-shirts and the backs of their jackets? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Sue
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#74166 - 10/04/06 11:12 PM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
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See, now that's the sort of inspired reasoning that keeps me coming back here. They'll look mighty worthless detaining 300 people for the same frivilous nonsense, won't they?
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)
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#74167 - 10/05/06 02:44 PM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Registered: 11/13/01
Posts: 1784
Loc: Collegeville, PA, USA
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This is precisely why I fly as little as possible. I haven't flown since 9/11. I have a problem being patted down just because the equivalent of a burger flipper thinks I should be.
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#74168 - 10/06/06 10:43 PM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Journeyman
Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 51
Loc: New York City
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I found a pretty amusing satire on Airline Travel Safety Rules today.... My favorite variation? "Shoes can now be worn through the security gate as long as passengers' feet are placed in a zip-lock bag before boarding." My second favorite? "Passengers who have consumed liquids or otherwise themselves consist of liquids must now be placed in a three quart zip-lock bag and placed on the conveyor belt. If you cannot fit into a three quart bag, you can check the rest of your bodily fluids as luggage".
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-- Helen
"Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
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#74169 - 10/07/06 06:13 PM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Geezer
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
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We flew last July, first time in years and years. My wife got the full pat-down, they were really concerned about her underwire bra (she is a busty 55 year old). But they completely missed the Cold Steel Mini-Pal she forgot and left on her keychain, which was in her carry-on bag. They ARE idiots!!!
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OBG
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#74170 - 10/07/06 06:18 PM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Geezer
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
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"...supervisors get sacked too; they are also easily replaceable..."
Yup, but GOOD supervisors are hard to find, hence the problem in many areas of our society. There is an old saying..."if you have a problem, promote it"...
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OBG
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#74171 - 10/07/06 08:59 PM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Registered: 11/13/01
Posts: 1784
Loc: Collegeville, PA, USA
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If they were well-educated and well-trained across the board, that would be one thing. What we have is something else entirely. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
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#74172 - 10/09/06 12:32 AM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Member
Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 122
Loc: Upstate NewYork
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Just to give you an idea of the intelligence of theTSA system, they still identify potential threats by just a name on a watch list. There is no other information such as age, racial type... nothing more. They also include the names of know dead individuals. They do not, howeve, list the names of the potentially most dangerous "terrorists" because that information is "classified". Don't you feel a whole lot safer now?
"There is nothing so frightening as ignorance in action.
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"There is nothing so frightening as ignorance in action."
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#74173 - 10/09/06 02:31 AM
Re: Writing on a toiletry bag results in detention
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Veteran
Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
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i just watched the 60 minutes segment about the ridiculously inept no fly list. the interviewer even questioned the lady who's in charge of the information that makes the list and she was literally speechless. there's 11 of the dead 9/11 hijackers on there, names like john roberts (with no birth date or other informantion), and the name of another guy who's been dead for 10 years, etc. etc. man, the level of incompetence is really disturbing.
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