Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 8 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >
Topic Options
#72334 - 09/04/06 04:23 AM Re: Where, What materials & Mosquitos
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
I was willing to give him the benefit of different enviroment and plants, until he made the 20'x20' in a few minutes claim, and stuck to the claim he'd made a leak proof leanto. A leanto is basically a roof at an angle, and maybe two side walls- that can not be leak proof, you have most or all of one side open.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

Top
#72335 - 09/04/06 04:59 AM Re: Where, What materials & Mosquitos
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
As I said in another post, I was willing to grant that you might have different plants to work with and a rather forgiving climate. But the claim to use pine boughs for the roof of a 20'x20' structure in, to use your words, "a few minutes" is too much for me to swallow, even if you have your materials precut.

I will point out that I'm using a rather conventional usage of the term "a few minutes": rarely more than ten minutes, and certainly not more than twenty.

What you have described sounds like a lean to. Perhaps it was described poorly, but the semi-open nature of a lean to makes it rather difficult to make water and wind resistant. I am always able to admit that I was in error- but you'll have to show me how the trick works first. And I know that I'm not the only one here who is of a like mind.

I will grant that if you preassemble the frame, thatch it, and then start counting while you hoist it, that this IS feasible in a few minutes. That's like saying it takes ten minutes to make a pie- sure, if you buy one frozen, but that totally ignores everything that was done before that.

Without evidence, that is the only way that your claim of a leakproof lean to that is 20' on a side can be raised in a few minutes can be viable. And if you are unwilling to provide public evidence for a publicly made claim....
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

Top
#72336 - 09/04/06 05:33 AM I never made that claim.
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Angel, I've never said I know everything. There are a great many things I don't know, and I've admited when I was in error here. If Boacrow will provide evidence of the capabilites of his shelter, and construction time (photographs with timestamps will be accepted unless blatently doctored to the naked eye), I will be willing to "eat crow". (If you'll pardon the pun) But without it, it is just another rather wild claim made by someone unwilling to share evidence.

I would say that my knowledge base is different from many people's for one large reason- I started learning the sciences, survival and world affairs while most people were learning those strange jump rope rituals, gossiping about movie and rock stars and study the statistics of one form of sports or another. I made a choice to not waste my time with things that provided no useful skill or insight into the functioning of the world.

And in a way, yes, I am at times curious as to what it would have been like to a "normal kid", usually around Thanksgiving. Five minutes in a store around the middle of December will take care of my curiosity for another fifty weeks. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

Top
#72337 - 09/04/06 05:40 AM Re: Where, What materials & Mosquitos
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
with car camping and very short distance backpacking, gear selection (and weight) isn't really all that important. especially if its cheap enough you can usually buy two (like with your air matresses) just in case one fails. however, when you really want to put in some miles and get out into the backcountry (with no re-supply like on the appalachian trail) then the right gear becomes very important. especially if you want to carry as little as possible. trust me, the more miles you hike the more stuff you regret taking. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> but thats only if you're going out in the backcountry. it takes the most planning and figuring out what gear you'll take, but it well worth the effort when you know you're miles away from the nearest road. then again, sometimes when you just wanna be in the woods without all the planning, car/truck camping is just the way to go. so its really not a necesseity to have the greatest gear unless you really need it.

Top
#72338 - 09/04/06 06:39 AM Re: Where, What materials & Mosquitos
Boacrow Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/18/06
Posts: 85
I guess I didn't describe my situation very well. By "long periods of time" I mean two months or more. Fire was easy since I am a smoker. I carry a lighter with me for that reason alone. Cutting implement wasn't hard either, I have used broken glass (which is abundance in most places), a pocket knfe that I carry for utility work, or even rocks that can work in a pinch and if you don't mind it taking awhile. For the larger stuff, such as poles for shelter, I have piled coals around the base of a small tree until it eventually burned through or I just bent them till they broke. I could. Medicine wasn't an issue since I ususally don't take it even when I am at home, and bandages I have made from parts of a shirt that I ripped off. Also I didn't purify the water. In fact, I never have used a purifier. never even owned one or known anyone that's owned one. Around here that's just never come up. Clothing I didn't make, I just washed the ones I had in a stream. I did find out early on that rocks not only clean clothes ok, they also make them wear out pretty fast, so I just wash them as best I can in the water. Food wasn't a problem. Around here food is everywhere. Rabbits can be taken by deadfall, so can raccoons, possums, and other small scavengers, birds are pretty much everywhere, although I have never trapped one that I remember, beaver, deer, turtles (one of the most abundant around here, and easiest to catch), frogs, fish, snakes, and crayfish. Crayfish are usually the first thing I hunt for since they are probably the most abundant and also very easy to catch. It does take alot of them to make a meal, but they are good. I have had to eat them raw and on those times, I got really small ones. The thought of eating them raw really doesn't appeal to me and the smaller ones are easier to force down. They also make good bait for certain animals such as fish and raccoons. I must admit, alot of the times I relied on items that I found to help me out. Where I used to go was about a mile downstream from a hydroelectric plant (read as dam) and there is no shortage of discarded fishing line, hooks, weights, and things that wash up from boats that have been crushed on the rocks. Once my dad took me to a spot where we found parts of three different boats washed up in the same spot. I found a tacklebox full of gear, although most of it was rusted beyond use, there were a few things I salvaged including quite a nice little fillet knife. If one looks around, usually they can find all kinds of things to make it a little easier. At least in an area that's heavily populated by fisherman.

Top
#72339 - 09/04/06 07:08 AM Re: Where, What materials & Mosquitos
Boacrow Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/18/06
Posts: 85
Try as I might, I couldn't find where I said that I could do it in "a few minutes". I concede the fact that I might have overlooked it, but the only reference I could find to time spent building shelter is in one of my earlier posts where I did mention that I could do it in about an hour. That is plus or minus a few minutes of course, depending on how far I have to drag stuff, but still I stand by it. That is for a basic shelter with just a roof. I can add walls to it to make it wind and water resistant but that of course would take a little longer. Also as far as pine boughs goes, I did mention that I have used other materials as well. It just happens that pine is the most abundant. As far as the photos go, since my camera doesn't have a time stamp, what would be sufficient proof of time? Or would there even be sufficient proof? Somehow I think that no matter what I do, it won't be enough to satisfy you. You'll probably cry foul no matter what. One other thing, I will only be able to take a pic of the before and the after if I am going to be able to do it all in the time allowed. If I have to stop every few minutes to take pics, it will take substantially longer. Anyway, as soon as I get a chance to get out to somewhere I can actually do it, I will post the pics.

Top
#72340 - 09/04/06 10:03 AM Re: Where, What materials & Mosquitos
ducktapeguy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 358
Sorry, I'm not a part of any fanclub here. I don't know ironraven from boacrow, but I do have to say that one of them seems much more knowledgable, and seems to have real life experience that I would tend to believe, while the other seems to be living in a internet world.

I'm not saying this stuff can't be done, because many people have done it, but there are too many inconsistencies in boacrows post to make me believe he's actually done it himself. It sounds like someone who's read all the survival terminology and methods from the internet, but has never tried it out for himself. It's not just from this post either, ever since his first post something has smelled a little fishy.

The reason I asked him to include a picture of his gun is because that would make it absolutely sure it's a current picture, and not a copied one off the internet. If he had mentioned anything else that he had with him, I would have said to include that in the picture, basically anything to provei t's actually him. but there are just a lot of other things that just don't compute. For example, the 20' x 20' shelter? Let's assume it really is 20 foot square. And he does use piine needles to cover it. Let's say it would take at least a one foot thick cover of pine needles to make it even remotely waterproof, (I actually think a lot more, but this is just hypothectically). When's the last time you walked into the forest and found a minimum of 4 x 20' trees and 400 cubic feet of pine needles, just waiting to be turned into a shelter? Now I'm won't even going to count the other branches you'd need to span the frame and support the pine needles, and you'd need quite a few. All this in less than an hour. Does this still seem plausible to you?

Maybe I am unable to understand his post, which you think are so clearly written, but it seems that there are quite a few others who are having the same problem. I want to learn as much as everyone else, but if someone is coming here with some pretty wild stories, they'd better be able to back up their claims with some proof. It isn't rudeness or arrogance (well, maybe a little rudeness on my part), but I think almost everyone here is pretty knowledgeable when it comes to this stuff, and they are able to separate the fact from the fiction. And the fact is, almost everyone else here is doubting him, some are just doing it more politely than others.

Oh yeah, and for the record, I actually agree with Boacrow in theory. People should be prepared not with what they carry in their bags, but with the knowledge to survive without all that a specialized equipment. If there is someone out there who can actuallly walk into the woods with nothing but a knife and survive for a long period of time, I would really, really like to meet them, because that is a very rare trait. The irony is, I don't think a person like that would be posting on an internet forum so often <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But what would happen if you go from the forest of Alabama to the deserts of the southwest? Even survival skills and knowledge are limited to some degree.

For now, I'll just stay quiet and wait for pictures. If he actually does do what he claims, I'll sincerely apologize for my comments. Even if they never materialize, this is an entertaining thread to watch.

Top
#72341 - 09/04/06 11:14 AM Re: Where, What materials & Mosquitos
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
Interesting post. Thanks. But you mention carrying at least two pieces of "gear": a lighter and (sometimes) a pocketknife. And if you are living for "two months or more" on a diet of nothing but fish and small game I would bet that you will be feeling pretty lousy after awhile, especially after the first couple of weeks when game starts getting scarce. And sooner or later drinking untreated water is going to catch up to you. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />


Edited by norad45 (09/04/06 11:28 AM)

Top
#72342 - 09/04/06 02:06 PM Re: Where, What materials & Mosquitos
Boacrow Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/18/06
Posts: 85
I'm curious about something. You say there are inconsistancies in my posts yet you don't mention them. I'd kind of like to know what they are. You say that people have done it but you don't think I have. I don't understand your logic. First of all, I grew up in the woods. Where I lived growing up, that's pretty much all we had. I spend alot of time outdoors especially in the summer when the reptiles are out of brumation so naturally I'm gonna learn some stuff anyway. Around here in the boondocks, everybody has some knowledge of the woods, I was just facinated enough to learn more about it. As far as your claim that I just learn everything off the internet without practicing it, what is the basis for that claim? At least what I claim you admitted yourself is possible and you even said many people have done it. I would ask you to at least be polite when you post. The gun probably won't prove anything to you or anybody else. If I posted a pic with me holding the gun in front of a shelter, you could just say that pics of people in the outdoors carry guns and that could be anybody. The particular gun I have is not a common one granted, but I'm sure you could find a pic of someone holding one with very little trouble. I'll have the gun in the pic but I will have a sign or something too so you know it's me. My screenname is something that you probably won't find a picture of. So I guess my point is, why do you people have to be so rude? If you know it's possible, why not give me the benefit of the doubt and hold the nastiness until you're satisfied that you are right? There's an old saying, make your words soft and sweet, for tomorrow, you may have to eat them.

Top
#72343 - 09/04/06 05:13 PM Re: Where, What materials & Mosquitos
AROTC Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 604
Loc: Manhattan
I have to challenge your claim that a lean-to will keep you neither warm nor dry. When my dad was a boy living near Flagstaff, Arizona he and his brothers pretty much had free range to do what ever they pleased after school and chores were done. One time he built a lean-to, exactly as you describe not working, to show his brothers how. He chopped two pine trees down so they were still attached to the stump to form triangular frames. Then he placed poles horizontally across to form a ladder shaped frame sloping towards the ground. Over the top of that he placed pine boughs so that the cut end was in the air at the open end of the lean to and the needles pointed towards the ground. Finally he covered the two triangular shaped sides to create a lean-to with a sloping roof, two triangular walls and a rectangular opening facing away from the prevailling wind. On the open side he built a fire pit with a reflecter to complete the shelter.

Okay, so what, I've just described a shelter from any number of survival books including the US Army manual "Survival, Evasion and Escape", 1966 version. The point is that after he and his brothers were done with it, a homeless woman found it and moved into it. With some augmentation such as covering the floor with cardboard, she spent the winter in that shelter. This is in Flagstaff Arizona, relatively high altitude, winter snow which sticks until spring in non-drought years, and high wind. I would call that a successful shelter from a survival point of view. And survival techniques are why I read this site, not for camping. If I am in a survival situation, i am there because I no longer have all the gear which makes life easier and softer, including my house, electricity, tents, stoves, cafeteria, computer and internet. Anything else, including a bugout with my BOB isn't a suvival situation, at worst, it is an unpleasent camping trip.


Edited by AROTC (09/04/06 05:14 PM)
_________________________
A gentleman should always be able to break his fast in the manner of a gentleman where so ever he may find himself.--Good Omens

Top
Page 8 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Who's Online
1 registered (Doug_Ritter), 266 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
manimal, tsfirstaid, Sherette, ohmysan, brenaline
5326 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Election plans
by Roarmeister
07:33 PM
Doug's pocket survival pak availability
by Roarmeister
07:24 PM
Kessler Syndrome
by Doug_Ritter
04:03 PM
Hiker missing for two weeks in Zion found alive!
by hikermor
02:50 PM
First aid kit upgrades
by RayW
09:24 PM
Runner tracked by mountain lion
by Chisel
10/17/20 07:37 AM
Little Sister Bowline
by TonyE
10/17/20 03:45 AM
Loop Knot
by TonyE
10/14/20 03:57 AM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.