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#70408 - 08/02/06 06:14 PM Re: Wood for fuel
Pharaoh Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 49
Loc: The Hague, the Netherlands.
Thank you, JIM and PC2K for the warm welcome <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I think only Angel to a degree and williamlatham absolutely grasped my point ! <img src="/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />
These cooking devices are indeed ENCLOSED FIRE SYSTEMS, bar the Grilliput. There is absolutely no "open fire situation" as compared to let's say a camp fire and there is also no firescarring left on the ground.
This is the exact same thing you are using except the fuel is a lot different/free/in abundance everywhere! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Also, as williamlatham points out these things are extremely fuel- efficient ! Three or four pinecones, three handfulls of twigs or a read paperback novel IS ALL IT TAKES to cook your meal or boil you water VERY QUICKLY. No kidding ! I'm not burning up whole trees here, this is exactly my point <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Damp wood/woodlike (pinecones; bark; grass, etc.) fuels also are not a problem since the "enclosed furnace/ chimney" system negates this problem same way a chimney-type charcoal starter for your bbq does.
The Grilliput is an entirely different story, as this is actually (albeit a very handy one, since it packs away as small as it does) a basic bbq grid on four legs and does use an open woodfire or charcoal fire. It just made sense to me to add it to the kelly kettle/trailstove combo because it fits inside this combo and uses the same (wood) fuel. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

So again , howcome so few of you use them ? Is it because many people are not aware of their existence, or other ?
Pharaoh.

_________________________
-Smile and the world smiles with you. Fart and you stand alone-

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#70409 - 08/02/06 07:34 PM Re: Wood for fuel
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thought some links would be nice:

TrailStove
Kelly Kettle
Grilliput

I'm not much of a backpacker, but it looks like clever stuff.

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#70410 - 08/02/06 08:12 PM Re: Wood for fuel
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1767
The problem with wood burning stove, are the ashes. Unlike a gas or liquid fuels, which should posses no threath when shut off. But ashes are usually (by some anyways) not properly cooled before they are discarded, thus a danger for wildfires.

Will check the exact dutch law about this, when i got the time.
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#70411 - 08/02/06 09:14 PM Re: Wood for fuel
billym Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 616
Loc: Oakland, California
In California and other mountain areas there is often no campfires or wood burning above 10,000 feet (lack of trees; delicate ecosystem). In a lot of western states it is too dry to burn firewood safely even in a stove like the Sierra Zip Stove.
Yes wood is efficient but not always the right choice and oftern illegal to burn.
In the Sierra wood burning stoves of any kind are not allowed in restricted zones they are considered camp fires.

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#70412 - 08/03/06 01:53 AM Re: Wood for fuel
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
It's not just out West, there are places in New England where you are looking at three and four digit fines if you are busted with a wood fire. That something is self contained is a boarderline area that might work, but you still have to fight the fine in court and convince a judge that everything was safe.

And Phaorah, that answers part of your question- it isn't worth it. The other part of it is, other than the kelly kettle, these items by these names are new to me, and I think they probably are to other people as well. For example, the grilliput's web site is obviously a european-based one; but now that I've seen a picture of it, we've had guys like this in catalogs for a while. I know the kelly kettle, but I wouldn't carry one simply becuase it's bigger than my entire ditch kit is.

Now, the stratus stove, that is very interesting. Thank you.

But that doesn't change the fact that in most places in the States (which is were most of us are) fire is banned. Remember, we've had a drought in the western third of this country for, what is it guys, 5, 6 years now? I can't remember when the Rockies and souther plains states were NOT in a drought.


Edited by ironraven (08/03/06 02:03 AM)
_________________________
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#70413 - 08/03/06 01:56 AM Re: Wood for fuel
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Alcohal stoves! Down side there is, they suck in winter, but that is just a matter of chemistry, it has nothing to do with the designs.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#70414 - 08/03/06 03:10 AM Re: Wood for fuel
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2148
Loc: Bucks County PA
One word: Rain

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#70415 - 08/03/06 03:12 AM Re: Wood for fuel
AyersTG Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
A late welcome to ETS... we're recently returned from taking our scouts backpacking in the Black Elk Wilderness area of the Black Hills of South Dakota.

You cite some merits that I won't disagree with save the weight (mass) - my typical kits (stove, fuel, pots) weigh less than your combo for trips of a few days. Depending on what I am eating, my kit can be a lot lighter.

No contest for trips of long duration - fuel weight and bulk does add up. Also, I prefer to burn wood to make water from ice or snow when I have a chance - hate burning stove fuel for that purpose.

There are plenty of places in the US where these sorts of stoves are OK to use and there are folks who do - but not a high percentage.

From a Leave No Trace standpoint, pick your impact wisely - the Kelly Kettle and Trail Stove can have little impact - perhaps, from a macro view, less than a petrol stove - although that's debatable.

I certainly do not find any fault with using your selections carefully if you like them. And there are extended ETS scenarios to contemplate where they make a great deal of sense.

However, my personal preference for recreational cooking use is petrol or LP gas (from cannister to bulk tank) burning stove, with an occasional brief use of an alcohol stove or Esbit stove (Ready Pack stoves for me). I've used diesel, jet fuel, and kerosine as well but really dislike the hassle with those heavier liquid fuels - neccessary "evils" for fuel in some parts of the world. I'm down to one stove that can burn those fuels and rarely take it along anymore.

Nothing against burning wood - we sit around a campfire at least once a week, and as I wrote, I hate using stove fuel to make water in the wintertime.

Regards,

Tom

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#70416 - 08/03/06 03:44 AM Re: Wood for fuel
Seeker890 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/19/06
Posts: 93
Loc: Central Ohio
As quite a few have noted, the legal use depends on where you are. I like the design, they seem very sensible. However, I know that areas in drought frequently ban all wood fires. The issue is sparks and the coals / hot ash. I would assume that when you burn pine cones or sappy wood, sparks would come out the chimney (I could be wrong, having never seen one in use). When you are done using, the hot ash needs to be put somewhere, hopefully in a fire ring. At that point, it is not much different than if you built the fire in the fire ring in the first place. Most Rangers wouldn't differentiate between the two, the end result is the same. The Ranger wouldn't know if you had or planned to made sure the ash was cool before you left the area. They standardize the rules and the knowlegable have to suffer because fools camp.
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#70417 - 09/22/06 07:55 AM Re: Wood for fuel
JAF Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 26
Kudos to you Pharaoh for using the BEST all season/purpose stove there is. It's been awhile since I have looked on the forum and I am glad I saw your post. I got a trail stove and have never looked back! In fact I sold my god for saken fuel stove the next day. I think a lot of people don't understand the concept of the trail stove and that is why it isn't as popular, but those who do get it, love it!!!!!!! Well I think I have heard only 3 complaints about it. One is that it gets a little dirty, it takes a little longer to get hot (aren't we out there to relax anyway?) and lastly when the user touched it, it was hot, really <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />, who would have thought.

I lived in the Sierra Nevada Mountains in N.E. CA. and now I live in MT. and I still use it even with fire restrictions. Now before everyone starts getting at me for breaking laws and endangering our forest land and that they hope I get fined there are two things to do to the trail stove to use it in fire restrictions.

First take it in to the ranger station and let them look at it, but I warn you be prepared to demo it for about 3 pots of coffee like I did. They had the same worries as posters said on this thread, sparks, ashes, coals, poppicock! I used all types of wood and only get a few sparks, coals are the best for cooking so technically that is what you want to cook with why would you get ride of them? and ashes????? What that very cool fine gray powder at the bottom of the stove that amounts to maybe 3 table spoons. And if that doesn't settle the fears of the rangers and firefighters then on to plan 2.

Second, bend only three of the taps at the bottom of the stove in a triangle pattern so the grate comes out really easy, go and get a 120 hr Nuwick Candle and when you can't use wood, grass, sagebrush or any of those other weeds that nobody seems to take notice of as they walk past that can be used for fuel, stick that candle in the stove and put the grate back in and WHA-LA a perfect non-wood burning stove that will last you about 62 hours of cooking time. Now how much liquid fuel would one have to carry for that much cooking time?

With this set up I can have a perfectly safe stove that will last me about a year before I have to buy a new candle. Speaking of price, the stove is 25.00 w/ S/H and the candle I believe is like 7.00. So for 32 bucks and about 32 oz I have a stove that can be used anywhere at anytime. No fuel, tanks, pumps, in fact no moving parts period! I have used this in a tent for warmth and cooking. Rain?!?!? Please, the same protection that goes into sheilding a liquid fuel stove from rain to start it is the same for a trail stove. No need to think in terms of seconds for cooking, take your time, boil that extra pot of water so your hiking comrades with their 80 dollar stoves can wash their hands and dishes once dinner is over. Come to think of it, I guess I do have a complaint to this setup. I do all the cooking now <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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