#68008 - 06/22/06 04:06 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Old Hand
Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 1032
Loc: The Netherlands
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I always use HD aluminium foil in my PSK, but a mess tin or sierra-cup would be better (of course it doesn't fit into your nalgene)
I use a coffee filter and micropur tablets if I can't cook
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''It's time for Plan B...'' ''We have a Plan B?'' ''No, but it's time for one.'' -Stargate SG-1
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#68009 - 06/22/06 04:14 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Enthusiast
Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 248
Loc: Oklahoma
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Campmor sells a metal cup that fits over the Quart Nalgene bottle...although I doubt that it would be big enough to cook squirel or rabbit stew in, but you could use it to boil water. Space Saver Cup
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Get busy living...or get busy dying!
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#68010 - 06/22/06 05:54 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Addict
Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 478
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You can't really make a pot big enough to cook in small. Pick the biggest you are willing to carry.
For weight savings, go titanium or aluminum.
For shape, go with either bowl, cup or square mess tin. The Trangia mess tins double as a container for food or kit, are light, easy to pack and may be your best bet. Search mess tin kit on this site and that may help.
Good luck.
re-reading your post, I would definately repackage your PSK in a Trangia tin, ditch the nalgene and go with a playtapus water bag for extra water storage.
Edited by duckear (06/22/06 05:55 PM)
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#68013 - 06/22/06 06:12 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 478
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#68014 - 06/22/06 06:27 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Journeyman
Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 80
Loc: Stafford, VA
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#68015 - 06/22/06 06:33 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Addict
Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 478
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I have that very Ti cup (MSR one in link above). It is a nice cup, pricey, and it perfectly fits in the Katadyn ExStream Water purifier.
You can boil water in it (obviously) but your sure can't cook a meal in it.
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#68016 - 06/22/06 07:06 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Addict
Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 601
Loc: FL, USA
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I know that the army canteen isn't the most versatile choice in H2O carriers but it fits a canteen cup nicely. A lot more room than the cup that fits the nalgeen bottle, although I haven't tried to cook in it, it is a bit bigger than the cup but it still is not a pot. I have mine with me almost all the time......nice insurance.......
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#68017 - 06/22/06 07:49 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Old Hand
Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 817
Loc: MA
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In an emergency, you can boil water in paper, like a paper cup or similar container. Water boils at 212*F, paper burns at 451*F.
_________________________
It's not that life is so short, it's that you're dead for so long.
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#68018 - 06/22/06 09:22 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Old Hand
Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 781
Loc: Central Illinois
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we used to boil eggs in styrofoam cups filled with water in the Scouts. Not environmentally friendly, but this was like 1980 and people still threw EVERYTHING out the window while driving back then. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Anyway, I wouldn't want to eat anything cooked in styrofoam nowadays, but it was a pretty neat trick seeing the top melt where there was no water, but the cup remaining intact.
_________________________
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.
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#68019 - 06/23/06 03:06 AM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
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If you gut, skin, debone, decapitate, and fold, you can stew a small squirrel or chipmunk in the Nalgene cups. It just looks kinda funny, and you are constantly adding water so it takes forever. The USGI canteen cup DOES hold about twice as much, and is the best arguement in favor of that canteen. Mark, if you are looking to repack in mess tins, check Major's Surplus and Sportman's Guide, one or both of them frequently have Euromil surplus mess tins from either France or one of the low countries that is about 7.5x5.5x2.5. Leave out the third, inner piece, and pack your gear into the two shells. It leaves you with a container to hold your kit while you cook, or you can cook two things at once (not the worst idea if you if you have to boil water- the fire is making more heat than the boiling can use). As I said elsewhere, I'm pretty sure my car running over it wouldn't hurt it. VERY similiar, although with a lower end (IMHO) handle is the British mess tin. Unfortunately, I can't find it at Sportmans Guide, and Major's website is misbehaving right now. If you are looking for the best bang for your buck, try a Wally World grease pot. They hold about a quart of whatever, weigh almost nothing. The ultralight camping crowd has been very fond of them for a long a time, they weigh maybe 8 ounces and run about five, six bucks. Look around by where they have the tooth picks and measuring cups, it is in a funny spot in the planogram. Keep the inner strainer/steamer tray or not is a personal call. Down side is that there is a small rim along the inside, that either needs to be done away with, or cleaned with a cut down toothbrush, and it has not handle. If you carry a leatherman or similiar, you are fine, otherwise you want to pick up a small pair of pliers to tuck into it and use as a pot grabber. It's the top item on this pageVery good write up on it You can see pictures of both here. I use both, but the mess tin is the core items. If I have to shed the rest of the pack, unless I'm about to go into rapids, being chased by an angry mob or something equally immediate in it's lethality, I'm taking three seconds to pull that out.
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-IronRaven
When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.
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#68020 - 06/23/06 05:09 AM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Member
Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 144
Loc: Kingman AZ
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I have an old military canteen cup which has served me well for years. You can stuff it with all kinds of things to reduce the space it takes up, and it weighs very little, resuseable and durable.
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What you know isn't as important as knowing what you don't know
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#68021 - 06/23/06 10:05 AM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Enthusiast
Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 351
Loc: Centre Hall Pa
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I have gone a slightly different route over solid containers. I use the art of origami and thin aluminum to make a pot that is 6 inches square and 3 inches deep yet will fit into a wallet.
While you could start with heavy duty aluminum foil I decided to go a bit heavier for something that would last longer. This is to use disposable aluminum cookie pans or sometimes labeled as oven liners. These are essentially double or maybe triple the thickness of the foil. This heavier foil also results in a sturdier pan. But you still need to manuver it caregully to prevent it from unfolding when full.
I cut out a square 12 inches on a side. Using paterns of origami that can be found all over the web you can fold this into the aforementioned box that is liquid tight and reasonably ridged. Folded flat it produces a 6 X 6 inch package. Then if folded in half this gives a 6 X 3 inch packet less than a 1/4 inch thick. This packet is about the size of several stacked dollar bills. Hence will easily slip into the bill compartment of any wallet.
Yes wear and tear will eventually wear holes and need replacement. But it is very cheap, light weight and compact.
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When in danger or in doubt run in circles scream and shout RAH
And always remember TANSTAAFL
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#68024 - 06/23/06 04:20 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Geezer
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
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From a post below: Nalgene bottles nest neatly in a Snow Peak Ti 700 Mug. That mug with your Nalgene based PSK would make for a nice contingency kit.
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough. Okay, what’s your point??
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#68025 - 06/23/06 06:06 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Old Hand
Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 715
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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Mark_G, Like you have have small cooking pots, but I also keep taking them out of my CamelBak. They have more bulk than I am willing to deal with for something I am not likely to need. My favorite pot is the Primus Kettle. It is flat, easy to pack, has a wide lid to use as a regular pot but also has a spout for heating water for freeze dried foods. The Ritter PSP uses an 18" x 18" square of HD aluminum foil for cooking and boiling water. This is what I keep in my CamelBak all the time. It is light and takes up little space. To make a cooking pot I fold it in half twice to get four layer thickness. I then crease it in thirds. I fold up the sides with the corners sticking out. I then roll the corners to get a water tight, square pot. It's sturdy and holds water. It also has many other uses.
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Thermo-regulate, hydrate and communicate.
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#68026 - 06/23/06 07:04 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Old Hand
Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
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I was wondering if anyone has experience with Sierra cups? They always struck me as being too shallow to be very useful.
I don't own one, but the Space Saver cup seems to be just about right to me.
Personally, I've always relied on my stainless steel GI canteen cup. While the kidney shaped cross section is awkward for some purposes, it can be and advantage when heating pouched ready to eat foods while still in the pouch.
- Tom
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- Tom S.
"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."
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#68028 - 06/24/06 03:23 AM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
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Mess kits aren't clanky if packed right. Ranger bands outside and cotten wool or a bandana inside (if needed) to keep everything snug, slip it into a gallon ziplock to keep everyhing dry, then dump it into a spare watch cap pad it.
Put it in your pouch, and knock your pouch off the table. I bet the mess tin won't clank. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
-IronRaven
When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.
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#68029 - 06/24/06 03:48 PM
Re: Boiling Water - container - 1 qt pot?
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Old Hand
Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 988
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Has anyone considered packing their survival kit IN a 1 qt/ 1 liter pot? I'd hate to have to boil water (for drinking) in my 16 oz mug. Over and over and...
What does an aluminum pot weigh?
tro
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#68031 - 06/25/06 03:04 AM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Member
Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 178
Loc: Florida
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Some of the Pepsi can alcohol stove crowd use stainless steel canisters to cook in. You can find them in WalMart, Target, etc. made for storing things from toothbrushes to kitchen spatulas. Just about any stainless steel container would work well for cooking. A lot better than uncoated aluminum like the Walmart grease pot. Don't use a double-walled or insulated container. Drill two holes and you can make a decent handle from a coat hanger or other wire.
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#68034 - 06/29/06 11:34 AM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Paranoid?
Veteran
Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
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When boiling water with hot rocks, if you're using a plastic bag set into a hole in the ground, both the ground on the outside of and the water inside of the plastic bag tend to become insulators against the heat of the rocks. So generally, you won't have to worry about burning through the plastic unless you've got too little water inside the bag, the hole is too shallow outside, or the bag is making direct contact with the hot rocks with no insulation between them.
Still, I've seen people line the bottoms of bags with a few cold stones, bark, and even a few sticks when using this method to boil water, so I could have been misled regarding the insulation.
Has anyone else heard this?
Perhaps I've just been lucky! <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
You can also hold the hot rocks in the water using sticks as "tongs".
_________________________
"Learn survival skills when your life doesn't depend on it."
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#68036 - 06/29/06 11:38 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Sultan of Spiffy
Enthusiast
Registered: 05/12/01
Posts: 271
Loc: Louisiana
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OK, it's not quite a mess kit, but my solution is.... the CLIFFstove (copyright CLIFF 2006, or patent pending, or some such thing). I took a US one quart canteed cup, turned it upside down, cut the bottom out and cut it into a windscreen / stand, placed a Natick stove/stand on that (making the whole contraption look hour-glass shaped, to focus the heat up the side of your cooking vessel), and put a small Trangia stove under it all. Then you put your cooking vessel (A US Army canteen cup) on top of the windscreen / stand, light off the Trangia, and in about five minutes you have 500ml of water at a rolling boil. Take the Natick stove off, and you can use the windscreen / stand alone with a mess kit, pot, or frying pan. And it all breaks doan and packs up in a MOLLE canteen / utility pouch, with a 1-quart canteen!
If anyone can host the images, I will be happy to post them.
.....CLIFF (like, who else?)
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#68037 - 06/30/06 01:04 AM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Old Hand
Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 781
Loc: Central Illinois
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Hi Cliff, I think that would likely be a TradeMark, but you'd have to apply for it. You can host pictures on any number of free services out there. Do a search for "free picture hosting" or click here if you have already setup the goodsearch cookie. There's plenty of options and many have prepared UBB and HTML code to dump thumnails with links to bigger pictures right into your message. Can't wait to see it! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.
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#68038 - 06/30/06 01:51 AM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
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Pictures good. I use photobucket now that I'm without host for the indeterminable future.
_________________________
-IronRaven
When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.
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#68039 - 06/30/06 02:58 PM
Boiling Water - containers - CLIFFstove
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Sultan of Spiffy
Enthusiast
Registered: 05/12/01
Posts: 271
Loc: Louisiana
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I took Ironraven's advice and played around a bit with Photobucket. I have no idea how this will turn out. OK, so here goes. ..... Here is the CLIFFstove packed up in a MOLLE utility pouch in the latest ACU colors (which are all the rage this year, BTW). In the pouch are two USGI canteen cups, a Natick cup stove/stand, and a USGI canteen cup cut up to work as a windscreen stove (aka, the CLIFFstove!). A small Trangia meths burner is in the side pocket (It's that bulge on the side. "Is that a stove in your pocket, or are you..... Oh, never mind.): [/image] Here is the assembly unpacked: [/image] With the CLIFFstove assembled: [/image] And with the cup on the CLIFFstove. Note how the Natick stove / stand is used as a heat shield: [/image] And here is the CLIFFstove, sans Natick stove / stand, used with your ordinary mess kit. I have boiled a liter of water with this in about 10 minutes. Hard boil. [img][image] http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/roark4/cliffstove/CLIFFstoveACU005.jpg[/img][/image] DISCLAIMER AND WARNING(S): The item shown is a home-built item. If you copy this, you do so at YOUR OWN RISK. Niether Equipped to Survive, nor Doug Ritter, nor Trangia, nor nor Cliff Grout (nor any of their family, friends, pets or trees in their yard) are in any way responsible if something goes awfully wrong. Or even slightly wrong. I can tell you this: This little stove heats up - a lot. It gets so hot that the top edge sometimes glows red hot. I cut additional air holes in the CLLIFFstove, but I am still worried that the contraption may overheat the Trangia stove - with less than optimal results (like, exploding metal stove bits flying about). So far, I have had no troubles. But that doesn't mean....... And if you snag my idea and market it, I want naming rights and a decent cut as royalty. And cut Doug in, too - ETS could use the cash. If you don't cut us in, or claim this as your own design, well, let's just say we got friends........ <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Oh, yes - why the second cup? I have always carried two canteen cups. One I use to heat water, and one I use as a bowl or cup. That way, I can be drinking a cup of coffee while heating water for grits. (Yes, grits. I'm from Louisiana. Deal with it.) Hope all of this helps, and thanks, Ironraven! .....CLIFF (like, who else?)
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#68040 - 06/30/06 03:25 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers - CLIFFstove
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
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can you make the picture a little bit smaller next time, it's filling my screen.
Intersting setup. I have only used the natrick stove with a alcohol stove due simply turning the cup 180 degrees and on the natrick stove. Not very stable nor very efficient, because the lack of wind protection.
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#68041 - 07/01/06 02:40 AM
Re: Boiling Water - containers - CLIFFstove
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Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
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Ah, much clearer with pictures, yes, thank you. I think I'm going to see if I can find a can that I can do something similair with for use with nalgenes.
I hate it when I go to the grocery store and everyone is looking at me funny becuase I'm measuring the cans. Of course I could always mutilate a an olicamp cup, but I don't want to do that. :P
What are you using to fuel your trangia? I've been using the yellow HEET and I can get 500ml of water to a rolling boil in about 7 minutes with it. I'm wondering if your juice might be better, or if boil time vs volume isn't a linear relationship.
I also didn't see a fuel bottle in that kit.
_________________________
-IronRaven
When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.
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#68042 - 07/01/06 03:06 AM
Re: Boiling Water - containers - CLIFFstove
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Sultan of Spiffy
Enthusiast
Registered: 05/12/01
Posts: 271
Loc: Louisiana
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Ironraven:
Fuel is just denatured alcohol. What does the trick, I think, is the Natick stove, which channels the heat up the sides of the cup and not just "out and away". As for fuel storage, I do one of two things: For weekends, filling the Trangia full up and taking along a 4oz. plastic squirt bottle full of fuel works fine - I've never run out of fuel. (My little bottle was originally used for hotel shampoo - thank you Holiday Inn.) For longer excursions, I take along a fuel bottle I got with a Swedidh mess kit (it has a Trangia stove with it).
Oh - PC2K: I'm terribly sorry about the image sizes. They looked fine when I previewed the darn thing, but trying to open it up from home I see what you mean. Like I said in my earlier post - this was my first stab at posting images, so please forgive me. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
.....CLIFF (like, who else?)
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#68043 - 07/01/06 03:02 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers - CLIFFstove
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Old Hand
Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 781
Loc: Central Illinois
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thanks for the pics cliff... very cool setup
_________________________
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.
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#68044 - 07/01/06 03:55 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers - CLIFFstove
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
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no need to say sorry, everybody that post pictures has propably done it once...
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#68045 - 07/03/06 03:02 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Enthusiast
Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 253
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I fold up a loaf tin - more robust than foil and already preshaped. Any tiny holes can be pinched shut, but generally I'd keep it folded until needed and then once open keep it that way, to avoid wear.
Boiling in holes in the ground, birch bark containers, paper cups etc. is great knowledge for a tight spot, but as the ability to boil and cook is pretty fundamental, I'd try to find space for a foil pan - mine squashes really small.
FWIW, Rays Mears (British bushcraft guru) rates a decent cook pot second only to a knife, because they are so hard to improvise.
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#68046 - 07/03/06 07:58 PM
Re: Boiling Water - containers?
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Veteran
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1468
Loc: Texas
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I agree. I really like my Space Saver Metal Cup on the bottom of a 1 liter negalene bottle.
_________________________
Learn to improvise everything.
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