I would be extremely interested in any info on this thread.......even though the wife and I camp only maybe 2x a year, we are both for the most part "Stuck" Indoor's! She, from knee injuries suffered in 2 MV accidents and a Hip replacement. Me, severe nerve damage from a broken neck and a lower back broken in 2 places while in the military. So, "Indoor's" spark's a REAL interest for us! Also, if anyone has any Tip's, Trick's, Shortcut's, for someone on a fixed Disabled Vet's Income, Please feel free to email me directly! You Gentlemen have My Appreciation and My Respect!

Krell

"That Good British Subject is living in a country in which the criminal elements are increasing using firearms, murdering ordinary decent citizens, receiving derisory sentence's for their crimes and in which the Political elements (another bunch of criminals) are determined to disarm ODC's like myself. That's the shocking bit, mate."

That sounds very much like the state of affairs in the USA 10-15 years ago. But now 38 (39?) states have concealed carry and are beginning to pass "stand your ground" laws. So there is hope. If enough people get fed up then the pendulum may swing back the other way. Don't give up!

Sir,

We haven't corresponded before, so please let me apologize for the intrusion.....but I read your post, and it definitely struck a nerve with me.
I can and do sympathize with how you feel, as that every day here, somewhere here in the news, you can find some bit, on where they are trying to take away the common, Law-abiding Citizen's, Right to Bear Arm's.
Someone over here a long time ago, came up with the saying that if they take away all the gun's, then only "Criminal's" WILL have gun's! It's a sad thing to think that we can't even protect ourselves anymore!
And as far as Ploitician's go....I'm with the mind on Billy Joel concerning Lawyer's...."Let's kill them all, let's kill them tonight!.....". I haven't seen an Honest one in 50 year's. It's a sad thing, it is.
I will say this and shut up...Leigh, take care of yourself, and watch your six.....and if the hair ever goes up on the back of your neck.....Trust that feeling!.....It keep's me out of trouble!

Krell

Good point on the Maglight....when I worked as a DOD Police Officer, we still had the old style PR24. Now add that to a heavy Maglight banging around on your Duty rig when you were trying to run, wasn't all that pleasant. Wound up buying one of the six, C-cell Maglight's, and quit carrying the PR24 altogether. Believe me.....as long as that particular ML was, with the weight of all the batteries, you DID NOT want me to crack you with it!

Krell

Couple of points

A .357 is more versatile. You can shoot either 38 or 357 rounds. And the pistol being "ripped out of your hands" is a bit too Hollywood. My 115# wife has little trouble with a .357.

A Ladysmith is a nice pistol, but more marketing than anything. Get a nice pistol and custom grips. Everybody is a bit different and the word "Lady" on the frame or box doesn't make it suitable for all women. Neither does .357 make it automatically unsuitable either. Recoil is more in the head than in the hands or shoulder.

And "one round in the center of mass" is anything but "uniformly fatal".



And while training is very desirable and necessary, I don't think lack of formal training should preclude firearm ownership or use. Many more examples of the "untrained" using firearms sucessfully than of innocent bystanders being "caught in the crossfire" so to speak. Fo the tens, if not hundreds, of millions of firearms in the US, true accidents are remarkably rare. IF only cars were as safe! If you read John Lott's book, More Guns, Less Crime, merely the presence of a firearm in the intended victims hand will discourage a large percentage of perps. They like easy marks.

With most rounds that is entirely correct. I suggested the Mag-Safe and Glaser Safety Slug because they are prefragmented rounds. That is to say the round consists of a copper jacket with birdshot, in liquid teflon (poly tetra fluro ethan if you want to get technical). Plastic cap. Round hits the target, friction deccellerates the jacket, cap and contents "burst" into the target. Delivers 100% of the rounds kinetic energy into the target. Even .22 delivers the equivalent of a FMJ .45 ACP. They were originally tested on goats (about the same mass as a human) by the U.S. Army. Average time to total body death was 9 secs. Total incapacitation in under a second. It would be a rather unusual person who survives even one shot.

Regarding: Mag-Safe and Glaser Safety Slugs

I have several problems with specialty ammo like this.

IMHO, if you own a semi-auto you had better put 100 or more rounds of your carry ammo down the tube before you make a decision on ammo reliability. These light/fast rounds may not be entirely reliable or may fail to properly cycle if you "limp wrist" the gun. The cost of this ammo makes it an expensive proposition to do that much reliability testing. For revolvers I am more comfortable with fewer rounds tested, but these high pressure rounds do have a tendency to flatten the primers, sometimes leading to binding up the cylinder. So, it is still a good idea to test several dozen rounds before having the confidence you can stake your life on some ammo.

The next problem with this specialty ammo is also related to its light weight and high velocity. These rounds will rarely print to the same aim-point as standard ammo, nor is the recoil the same. You may find this ammo will print 6”-12” or more below the point of aim for your firearm with standard weight and velocity ammo. That is just not good enough for me. If you have adjustable sights you can make the adjustments between practice ammo and the specialty ammo, but you had better have it set up right before needing it to preserve life. My own experience is that this specialty ammo is also intrinsically less accurate than typical premium defensive ammo (Federal, Corbon, etc). Your groups may double (or more) in size with the mag-safe or Glaser.

Finally, I have found that it is not uncommon for these rounds to tumble before reaching the target. This is probably more common from short barrels, but I am not certain of this (too expensive to do much testing). From the reading I have done on this specialty ammo, the damage can be dramatic if the round functions as designed. The problem is, if the ammo does not enter properly, it is very likely to fail to fragment. When these rounds fail to fragment they are dismal performers. I have used both types of ammo through some especially accurate little snub nose wheel guns. When the targets were examined it was clear that several of the slugs passed through sideways (not good).

I consider Mag-Safe and Glaser Safety slugs to be exotic ammo with niche functionality. There are clearly good uses for this ammo, but I have decided to place ammo and firearm reliability/consistency above the possible stopping power benefits of this pre-fragmented ammo.

I think way too much attention is focused on “what caliber”, “what type of gun”, and
”what’s the best ammo”. (Although fun to discuss and ponder endlessly) Arguably, the most important component is the “nut holding the grip”. (Inside gun humor)

My big three:
-Shot placement
-Reliable firearm (Revolver or semi, what ever feels good and allows you to shoot well)
-Reliable ammo (hollow point or equivalent preferred)

Anything else is a distant fourth.

Good luck, TR

Thanks Duckear... I agree with every word you said... and said well, I might add <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

Troy

I absolutely second the suggestion of extra shoes ... but instead of flats I'd recommend a pair of broken-in tennis/athletic shoes -- i.e., whatever she'd wear for an aerobics class or a jog. What I consider my "broken-in flat shoes" are very comfortable for walking around the city, but would probably give me blisters if I wasn't walking on pavement or if I had to hike more than a couple of miles.

I'm teasing.