I have a girlfriend who I am packing an emergency kit for her car. She is not into survival thinking and is an indoor person. She accepts something can happen on the road or elsewhere, she is close to her vehicle nearly all of the time. I will eventually get her to carry a PSK or urban EDC kit. But she could get stuck somewhere out on the highway in the middle of nowhere or of course the normal "anything could happen."

Can I get suggestions on a kit to keep in her car in case of anything happening? I am trying to build one and tailor it to her and train her on what she doesn't know how to use. I need suggestions and outright "NASTY" criticisms on what to add and what to omit. No offenses taken, I am willing to learn. My contents gathered so far:

(She has a Spyderco Ladybug for EDC)
*A good old fashioned noggin knocker carved from white maple. (My attention-getter when drug pushers are knocking on the door)
*A Gerber multitool
*matches in orange waterproof matchcase
*PJ soaked cotton balls in orange waterproof matchcase
*She has a real unquestionably-good FAK, so that needs no further debate (it would waste our time)
*Warm Blanket
*Space blanket
*Pealess whistle w/ lanyard (not loud enuff - am getting her a Fox 40)
*10 ft of mason string
*Coughlan's signal mirror (will get a better one - this can break)
*several feet of orange 2" wide duct tape
*button compass
*small can opener similar to P-52 but with more leverage
*jumper cables
*water
*food
*extra oil, fluids etc. for car
*lifehammer
*60g of gatorade powder
*4 large safety pins
*long-burning survival candle
*55 gal drum liner
*she keeps warm jacket in the car
*emergency poncho

PICK IT APART AND ENJOY!

Since it's a car kit you should have plenty of space. I would ditch the button compass in favor of a full size Silva or similar model. Add a handsaw and axe for firewood, and consider tire chains if the weather calls for it. A good heavy-duty tow strap as well if not already part of the tool kit. Several Bic lighters and a couple of cans of Sterno could prove useful. I don't know how handy she is but you should include a spare fan belt(s). Even if she isn't capable, somebody who stops might be. Oh, and add a bottle of Potable Aqua or Micropur tablets, a good flashlight or two, and some hiking shoes/boots.

Simon, I didn't see a reflective safety vest on that list. Be a pity to get out of the car and get run down. Makes a damned usefull marker panel as well.

Simon,

You're off to a great start. I suggest adding a pair of work gloves. These will come in handy for everything from changing a tire to building a shelter. Deerskin or pigskin gloves are probably the best for comfort and dexterity. I also suggest a small tarp and 50' of parachute cord for making shelter. Finally, I'd throw in a few high-calorie energy bars.

Excellent start on the kit, not much I can add considering the other suggestions already made, like lighters and such. But I did notice your list was short on tools...does she have anything for repairs?

I don't know if her car is already equipped with these or not, but changing a tire is a whole lot easier if you have a full-size jack instead of the dinky bottle jack normally supplied. A 4-way lug wrench also allows for a lot more torque to get stuck nuts loose.

I saw jumper cables in the list, make sure she has good ones, not the cheapy thin ones. 12 or 10 gauge should be minimum.

Also a basic toolkit seems to be missing. You don't need anything fancy, just common screwdrivers, small socket set, pliers, stuff like that.

EDIT: Noticed the Gerber multitool, doh! Adding a socket set might still be useful, hard to remove bolts with pliers.

And going along with an earlier posters comment on visibility, try to get some flares or other means of making sure her vehicle is clearly visible at night. Hazard lights are fine, but eventually the battery may run out.

Well, anything else we can change or add?

So Far:

*Spyderco Ladybug for EDC
*A Gerber multitool
*lifehammer
*hand axe
*folding wood saw
*jumper cables (10 or 12 ga.)
*socket set
*crescent wrench
*extra oil, fluids etc. for car
*Tow strap
*tire chains
*fan belt
*white maple noggin knocker

*Bic lighters
*matches in orange waterproof matchcase
*PJ soaked cotton balls in orange waterproof matchcase
*Sterno cans w/ emergency stove


*She has a real unquestionably-good FAK, so that needs no further debate (it would waste our time)
*4 large safety pins

*long-burning survival candle
*Warm Blanket
*Space blanket
*55 gal drum liner
*she keeps warm jacket in the car
*emergency poncho
*10 ft of mason string
*Leather work gloves
*Hiking Boots


*Reflective vest
*Pealess whistle w/ lanyard (not loud enuff - am getting her a Fox 40)
*Coughlan's signal mirror (will get a better one - this can break)
*several feet of orange 2" wide duct tape
*50 ft of orange 550 paracord
* small bright colored tarp
*Flashlight - got two - one is a spotlight
*chemical stick lights
*road flares


*brew kit/ mess kit
*small can opener similar to P-52 but with more leverage
*water
*food: energy bars
*60g of gatorade powder
*micropur tablets

I would forget the "noggin knocker" and go with a pistol ( 357 wheelgun) as well as a TN CC permit, or at least a Surefire with 60+ lumens and pepper spray.

IMO, 99% of females with a club for defense will take one clumsy swing, miss, and have it taken away by their attacker.

Maybe an FRS/GMRS radio along with some lithium batteries for long term storage. That way she can still summon help even if stuck in a no-cellphone area.

My car kits (mine or those I prepare for female friends), include heavy duty gloves AND disposable latex gloves usefull for opening the lid or checking air pressure or simply filling
the tank.
And if you insist on soiling your hands, even with gloves, I always add a bottle of liquid soap (the kind for mechanics...), a roll of paper towel and a microfiber towel or an emergency compact towel (recently discussed in another thread).

"A good old fashioned noggin knocker carved from white maple."

Some municipalities consider this a weapon and will take you to jail for a discussion at the least. YMMV. A 3 D-cell Maglite works as well for that purpose and doesn't raise any eyebrows. What kind of warm blanket do you have?

Said municipalities really need to pull their heads out of their butts.

.357 is too heavy for most ladies. Unless she's a trained shot. Recoil from the first round will rip the gun right out of her hands (from not holding it properly). Get her a .38 Ladysmith. Load it with MagSafe's or Glazer Safety Slugs. Much lighter recoil and one round anywhere in the center of mass is uniformly fatal.

Unless she's a trained shot, she shouldn't have a gun in her hands. Nobody should.

Everyone has issued gread advise on tools/equipment to add.

You mentioned that she is an "indoors" type of person, therefore, I would add some simple instructions with pictures. You could scan things from manuals, and drop these pictures into a document on the computer. Add your own text, and then take the pages to Kinko's or the local library to get laminated. Maybe add a ring to keep the pages together, and she'd have something to fall back on if TSHTF.

You can't mention equipping your girlfriend without mentioning shoes! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Depending on what she typically wears, like for work everyday, you could throw in a pair of old but well broken in flat shoes in case she needs to walk someplace. Even lugging the spare tire out of the trunk in heels could easily break something--either on the shoe or in her ankle.

A change of clothes could be added. But if it's just to keep dirt and grease off the clothes, I suppose the poncho could be used. But as a guy, even I'd feel rather dorkish changing a tire on a sunny day with a poncho thrown over my office outfit.

Cell phone charger that you can plug into the car. Even if there's no signal anyway, psychologically, I think it feels really lonely to have a dead cell phone in your hand when something goes wrong. And it makes you feel anxious seeing your cell battery charge getting lower after having multiple phone conversations during some long drawn out breakdown somewhere. And throw in some change to make a call in case there's a payphone nearby but no cell signal.

Dry chem extinguisher? But if all her emergency gear burns up, oh well, just another chance for you to put together a new one. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

List of emergency phone numbers stored in the glove box and programmed into the cell-phone. Emergency change for payphones (beyond the coins normally hanging around various pockets in the car).

What Malpaso said. You should ask her if she would be interested or at least willing to learn about firearms and get her one if so. Ditto on the .38.

A nice Veritas folding buck saw takes very little room, yet would give her the ability to cut tree branches or small trees. Good for shelter building or for firewood if she can find deadfall.

Get her a good survival manual - SAS Survival Guide or US Army Survival guide.

Take a couple weekend days and work with her to get familiar with all the stuff packed in there, and do some practice in using the stuff she's not used to dealing with.

Start some fires without matches, for instance.

The more she knows about her kit and how to use it, the better of she will be. If she's hesitant to get involved, mention to her that her knowledge of these skills could save not only her own life but the lives of others.

Are the match and tinder cases marked to seperate them? Its minor, but the devil is in the details.

I'd lose the mason twine. It's ok stuff- heck, I used it for my watch lanyard. But for a car kit, paracord for all of it. Mason twine snaps at something like 15, 20 pounds.

Tow strap? Even if she can't get someone else out, someone might get her out.

Ditto the good jumper cables. They are not the place to cheap on. You can actually buy units that plug into the lighter socket so you can attempt to jump yourself. They aren't worth a thing below 0, they have fairly low amps, but it might be worthwhile.

Someone mentioned an axe and a saw. Saw, yes, axe, for someone who's not skilled with it, no. DIY amputation attempts aren't funny at the best of times.

Shovel? A trowel will do, an entrenching tool is better, especially the Russian one. But you can't beat a real shove with a cut down handle.

Where is the lifehammer?

Delorme map book(s) for your area. Not the best topo maps, but they show pretty much everything important, and useful even in normal circumstances.

How much water? Can she lift it? What kind of packaging? What about winter- I know Tennesse can get unpleasent. Do you have a pot or cup, or is she just going to chug?

Oil and other fluids, does she know where they go?

Tire pressure gauge. I've seen (and had) several car problems that could have been avoided with regular use of one. How often is the spare checked for pressure? Is it a real tire, or a donut?

Break down signals? Did I miss them? If you can't start a fire with a highway flare you are either in space or underwater, so even if you have triangles, toss in a few flares.

An easy to understand survival manual.

A roll of quarters. Phone booths, vending machines, most toll booths, air fill stations, they all like quarters.

Spare wiper blades with replacement instructions. Replace them for her once a year as a set- you show with one, she shows you with the other.

Zip ties and a small spool of brass wire- it's not as good as stainless, but not as hard to work.

Somethign to put under the wheels for traction, like a couple of carpet remnants.

A real tire iron, not the little mini ones that come with the car.

The first thing I wonder is, does she actually know what to do with all this stuff in an emergency? We might just take it for granted that everyone would automatically know what to do with duct tape and mason twine and cotton balls. But not everyone is a MacGyver, I think most people would look at this stuff like it's an alien lifeform. I'd actually simplify and give her just the basics. Even with all the best survival gear in the car, if she's not interested in learning how to use it, it's worthless.

For example, do you think she'll know what to do with mason twine or PJ soaked cotton balls? I know my girlfriend wouldn't. Does she know how to use jumper cables? It's funny how many people don't know how to hook them up properly. I actually had to help a couple of people who were trying to jumpstart a car, they had the cables, but didn't know how to hook them up. Tool sets are useless if she doesn't know how use them to fix a car. Same with a huge first aid kit. Unless she knows what to do with all the stuff, anything more extensive than bandaids and bandages might just go to waste.

For a basic kit that won't overwhelm her, maybe start out with some simple things:

Bottled Water
Snacks
Warm Clothes
Gloves
Fix a flat
Portable Jumpstarter (Not the kind that plugs into a cigarette lighter, but the kind that hooks directly to the battery)
A good cell phone
A multitool
Lighter
Simple first Aid kit
Money, credit card, or phone card

And then slowly add to the items one by one as you teach her how to use these things.

Good ideas ironraven:

Label the tinder and matches.

Lose the mason twine, she'll have paracord anyway.

Will get her a heavy duty trowel or E tool.

Lifehammer, I need advice on how to mount it where it is reachable, say if she is upside down.

Delorme map book for this area -- will check

She already has lots of bottled water stored with energy bars.

Will have her a stainless wire rim mug to drink out of or warm water in on emergency stove along with a fold-a-cup.

Break down signals -- excellent idea! She's so paranoid about flares but will have to learn.

Brass wire -- got that one covered -- 2-3 ft. do it?

zip ties? enlighten me on uses, I never thought of it

Pressure gauge,fluids, tire tools,wipers--covered.

More than one good blanket in there, plenty of other stuff to use for traction besides blankets.

Quarters covered

Cell phone charger covered

Survival manual? Just have to have one custom-made by me -- Lofty and Ray are not her type of reading even if necessary.

Well, as far as the gun goes, its a long shot (no pun intended.) A piece of white maple is better than nothing. They are naturally twisted sticks caused by vines growing around the trees/branches. I carve them into canes and walking sticks and furniture legs or just for decorations and the like. They are collector's pieces seen as a novelty item and are not questioned by cops, just looks like something you picked up at a flea market. Maybe pepper spray is the answer.

A Ladysmith? No way. A full size K-frame S&W .38 is what ladies should really handle if their hands can wrap around it. 2 1/2 -3" barrels. A Ladysmith is only for a woman who is a well-seasoned shooter and can handle the recoil, not for this indoors type Lady. If a woman does use a J-frame Smith, I found .38 wadcutters work perfect. Just the thing they practice with too. Believe me, they do the job. .357 mag sounds cool, but ridiculous in this situation.

Gee, I never equip anybody with anything they don't know how to use, where did you ever get that idea? Always make sure they know how to use it first, otherwise I follow the bare minimum you wisely list, which is pretty much what she already has had in her car. This isn't an overnight project for me, its an ongoing (if never-ending) process.

No argument's there mate. Passing a basic firearms course might be a requirement before she can have a concealed carry permit - I hope.

I'd strongly suggest a "Call Police" sign, either the old-fashioned fluorescent orange kind, or this new-fangled design:
http://www.highwayhelp.org/index.htm

Alex

I suggested a LadySmith because most Ladies have smaller hands than us Gorrilla Gripped He-man types. And a Mag-Safe won't go through the target. At close ranges everything else will.

I get your meaning. I too am an indoors kind of person, but I understand survival thinking.

I like filtered air, fluorescent lighting, computer screens, digital cable, and air conditioning.

I also understand the need to know what to do when things go wrong.

-- Craig

Great idea! Now if the mounties don't show up here I won't be surprised. lol

Don't mean to get way off topic, so I'll just leave it at this, Leigh: Ladysmiths are just decorated J-frame Smiths for aesthetic appeal to go along with their firepower. Belly guns like that are not as easy to control for little ladies also. Magsafes aren't the only thing that won't go thru the target, especially from a snub nose's lower velocity it can vary from load to load. I've used .44 Special loads nearly 20 years ago that wouldn't even crack a concrete block at 10 ft. It was a hollowpoint copper cone with a plastic wad backing it up made for close up defense. It actually put two holes in your target at that range, one from the light slug, another from the plastic. Shot them from a Charter Bulldog 2 1/2 inch barrel.

Yes I have heared of them. I was merely thinking of the most likely scenario. Zero feet engagement against a Goblin/Wannabe Rapist with a friendly right behind him. At that point penetration become an issue. Deepest a Mag-Safe goes at point blank is 6-9". That's why it's my first choice.

Leigh, I'm shocked! You are a good British subject, you shouldn't even know about these things! <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

That Good British Subject is living in a country in which the criminal elements are increasing using firearms, murdering ordinary decent citizens, receiving derisory sentence's for their crimes and in which the Political elements (another bunch of criminals) are determined to disarm ODC's like myself. That's the shocking bit, mate.

I would be extremely interested in any info on this thread.......even though the wife and I camp only maybe 2x a year, we are both for the most part "Stuck" Indoor's! She, from knee injuries suffered in 2 MV accidents and a Hip replacement. Me, severe nerve damage from a broken neck and a lower back broken in 2 places while in the military. So, "Indoor's" spark's a REAL interest for us! Also, if anyone has any Tip's, Trick's, Shortcut's, for someone on a fixed Disabled Vet's Income, Please feel free to email me directly! You Gentlemen have My Appreciation and My Respect!

Krell

"That Good British Subject is living in a country in which the criminal elements are increasing using firearms, murdering ordinary decent citizens, receiving derisory sentence's for their crimes and in which the Political elements (another bunch of criminals) are determined to disarm ODC's like myself. That's the shocking bit, mate."

That sounds very much like the state of affairs in the USA 10-15 years ago. But now 38 (39?) states have concealed carry and are beginning to pass "stand your ground" laws. So there is hope. If enough people get fed up then the pendulum may swing back the other way. Don't give up!

Sir,

We haven't corresponded before, so please let me apologize for the intrusion.....but I read your post, and it definitely struck a nerve with me.
I can and do sympathize with how you feel, as that every day here, somewhere here in the news, you can find some bit, on where they are trying to take away the common, Law-abiding Citizen's, Right to Bear Arm's.
Someone over here a long time ago, came up with the saying that if they take away all the gun's, then only "Criminal's" WILL have gun's! It's a sad thing to think that we can't even protect ourselves anymore!
And as far as Ploitician's go....I'm with the mind on Billy Joel concerning Lawyer's...."Let's kill them all, let's kill them tonight!.....". I haven't seen an Honest one in 50 year's. It's a sad thing, it is.
I will say this and shut up...Leigh, take care of yourself, and watch your six.....and if the hair ever goes up on the back of your neck.....Trust that feeling!.....It keep's me out of trouble!

Krell

Good point on the Maglight....when I worked as a DOD Police Officer, we still had the old style PR24. Now add that to a heavy Maglight banging around on your Duty rig when you were trying to run, wasn't all that pleasant. Wound up buying one of the six, C-cell Maglight's, and quit carrying the PR24 altogether. Believe me.....as long as that particular ML was, with the weight of all the batteries, you DID NOT want me to crack you with it!

Krell

Couple of points

A .357 is more versatile. You can shoot either 38 or 357 rounds. And the pistol being "ripped out of your hands" is a bit too Hollywood. My 115# wife has little trouble with a .357.

A Ladysmith is a nice pistol, but more marketing than anything. Get a nice pistol and custom grips. Everybody is a bit different and the word "Lady" on the frame or box doesn't make it suitable for all women. Neither does .357 make it automatically unsuitable either. Recoil is more in the head than in the hands or shoulder.

And "one round in the center of mass" is anything but "uniformly fatal".



And while training is very desirable and necessary, I don't think lack of formal training should preclude firearm ownership or use. Many more examples of the "untrained" using firearms sucessfully than of innocent bystanders being "caught in the crossfire" so to speak. Fo the tens, if not hundreds, of millions of firearms in the US, true accidents are remarkably rare. IF only cars were as safe! If you read John Lott's book, More Guns, Less Crime, merely the presence of a firearm in the intended victims hand will discourage a large percentage of perps. They like easy marks.

With most rounds that is entirely correct. I suggested the Mag-Safe and Glaser Safety Slug because they are prefragmented rounds. That is to say the round consists of a copper jacket with birdshot, in liquid teflon (poly tetra fluro ethan if you want to get technical). Plastic cap. Round hits the target, friction deccellerates the jacket, cap and contents "burst" into the target. Delivers 100% of the rounds kinetic energy into the target. Even .22 delivers the equivalent of a FMJ .45 ACP. They were originally tested on goats (about the same mass as a human) by the U.S. Army. Average time to total body death was 9 secs. Total incapacitation in under a second. It would be a rather unusual person who survives even one shot.

Regarding: Mag-Safe and Glaser Safety Slugs

I have several problems with specialty ammo like this.

IMHO, if you own a semi-auto you had better put 100 or more rounds of your carry ammo down the tube before you make a decision on ammo reliability. These light/fast rounds may not be entirely reliable or may fail to properly cycle if you "limp wrist" the gun. The cost of this ammo makes it an expensive proposition to do that much reliability testing. For revolvers I am more comfortable with fewer rounds tested, but these high pressure rounds do have a tendency to flatten the primers, sometimes leading to binding up the cylinder. So, it is still a good idea to test several dozen rounds before having the confidence you can stake your life on some ammo.

The next problem with this specialty ammo is also related to its light weight and high velocity. These rounds will rarely print to the same aim-point as standard ammo, nor is the recoil the same. You may find this ammo will print 6”-12” or more below the point of aim for your firearm with standard weight and velocity ammo. That is just not good enough for me. If you have adjustable sights you can make the adjustments between practice ammo and the specialty ammo, but you had better have it set up right before needing it to preserve life. My own experience is that this specialty ammo is also intrinsically less accurate than typical premium defensive ammo (Federal, Corbon, etc). Your groups may double (or more) in size with the mag-safe or Glaser.

Finally, I have found that it is not uncommon for these rounds to tumble before reaching the target. This is probably more common from short barrels, but I am not certain of this (too expensive to do much testing). From the reading I have done on this specialty ammo, the damage can be dramatic if the round functions as designed. The problem is, if the ammo does not enter properly, it is very likely to fail to fragment. When these rounds fail to fragment they are dismal performers. I have used both types of ammo through some especially accurate little snub nose wheel guns. When the targets were examined it was clear that several of the slugs passed through sideways (not good).

I consider Mag-Safe and Glaser Safety slugs to be exotic ammo with niche functionality. There are clearly good uses for this ammo, but I have decided to place ammo and firearm reliability/consistency above the possible stopping power benefits of this pre-fragmented ammo.

I think way too much attention is focused on “what caliber”, “what type of gun”, and
”what’s the best ammo”. (Although fun to discuss and ponder endlessly) Arguably, the most important component is the “nut holding the grip”. (Inside gun humor)

My big three:
-Shot placement
-Reliable firearm (Revolver or semi, what ever feels good and allows you to shoot well)
-Reliable ammo (hollow point or equivalent preferred)

Anything else is a distant fourth.

Good luck, TR

Thanks Duckear... I agree with every word you said... and said well, I might add <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

Troy

I absolutely second the suggestion of extra shoes ... but instead of flats I'd recommend a pair of broken-in tennis/athletic shoes -- i.e., whatever she'd wear for an aerobics class or a jog. What I consider my "broken-in flat shoes" are very comfortable for walking around the city, but would probably give me blisters if I wasn't walking on pavement or if I had to hike more than a couple of miles.

I'm teasing.

Krell, you and I are both waiting for the day when a gentleman can wear a .45 and a knife on his belt, with a bat'leth on his back, and be considered properly dressed. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I trust that the knife will be a D'k tang or a Mek'leth? For matters of personal honnour.

Good points my friend. But please remember that we are talking about a Zero/Zero engagment. If it goes beyond 30 seconds and 3 rounds, I will be very much surprised.

2 out of 3 Car Kits
By Rich “Raspy” Shawver

What is missing? The Bug-Out-Bag is. Although, you may call it a get home bag rather than a BOB. Why? Because you may not have a BOB in every vehicle. In addition you may not carry a BOB at all times. The vehicle, the kits are for, could belong to someone else. You can use the argument for including such gear that Homeland Security is recommending people to acquire and keep 72 Hr. kits. Be this a significant other, someone you hope may become a significant other, relative or just a friend that refuses to carry a BOB. As it is not the PC thing to do.

This is a vehicle emergency pair of kits. They are for personal emergencies rather than for problems that effects the general populous. Whether it is a local or worldwide situation. Because this is repair equipment rather than survival supplies it will be easier to convince someone that is a non-prepper to accept it. You do need this gear in every vehicle. Everyone knows that a problem will happen when you are least prepared. But that is neither here nor there. A BOB is a matter for a different discussion.

These kits are not cheap. Don’t expect to throw $20 or $30 worth of equipment into a bucket and call it good. While something like this may be a first step in the process it is only the start of a good car kit. The overall cost might add up to a quite a bit. This need not be spent all at once. Prioritize the equipment you intend to acquire then purchase a little at a time. While there are many ways to reduce costs. DO NOT CUT QUALITY! The intent of these kits is to save the life of you or someone you care for. At least to get out of a situation that could become dicey if not dealt with. Do you really want to skimp? You can do with less gear but if what you have is cheap junk that fails it was a waste of time, weight, money and most especially expectations.

A number of items are cross over equipment. Much of the survival gear, food and water can be used as a supplement to a BOB. Because of the carrying capacity of a vehicle there are fewer constraints on weight or bulk versus a BOB designed to be packed on your back. Although you might want to consider adding a day pack or two if you need to leave the vehicle primarily for food and water with these kits.

Why 2 kits? You need one in the passenger compartment. Just in case you are trapped in the vehicle the gear has to be within reach of the driver. Regardless of how many are in the car there is someone that starts out in the driver’s seat. This can even be split up into several packages. Some in the glove box, under the seat, door pockets or even one of those organizers that hook to the back of the seat. Depending on other options that have been add there may be even more places available. The other is for the big gear. This can be in the trunk, bed storage box etc. Additionally some of the spare parts could be stored in a container or box mounted in the engine compartment. This is dependent on the type of vehicle and how much room is available.

These kits are an average between the frozen north [or south] and the tropics in between. Of course since this is a generic description tweak it to meet any special needs of your home stomping grounds and specific vehicle. They also will need to be seasonally adjusted. Over the years I have observed that the majority of vehicles contain only one person. For this reason the kit quantities are single person based. If in your case you regularly travel with extra people you may want to increase amounts of certain materials such as clothing and consumables. If the expected extra passengers are children the consumables may need some adjustment. While foods, such as MRE’s or lifeboat rations would be tolerated by adults, children will demand more palatable snacks. This will require a balancing act between storage life and the individual child preferences. While older children will understand the necessities of the situation young children may understand to some extent but still want something they like. The object is to help pacify them. With all the other problems do you really want to add extra the agitation of whining children to the mix?

How to store the equipment.
Rubber Maid, Tupperware and others make plastic containers from small to large and multiple shapes. These protect the car from the content, protect the contents from water leaks and help organize the equipment. Also plastic [to save weight] tool and tackle boxes. You can even make custom stuff sacks or buy commercial ones. For added water resistance gear can be packed into ziploc type bags. There are buckets in ½, 1, 2, 3, 5 and 8 gallon sizes with tight fitting lids. Groups can be packed in small sized containers then tucked in various nooks and crannies or in a larger container. Words of caution about plastic containers and cold weather. When exposed to cold plastic can become brittle. Be careful handling to minimize the chance of damage. Some of these totes even have wheels and extendable handles. While they are more expensive they will allow it to be pulled behind you rather than on your back. This would allow you to transport more than a pack would. There are also foldable luggage carts kind of like a small hand truck.

When packing things like clothes and sleeping bags there are plastic bags with a one way valve you hook up to a vacuum cleaner and suck out the air. This protects the clothes from dampness and keeps them fresh. This can also be done with the seal a meal vacuum packing machines. It also reduces the bulk so you can pack more in the same space. Plus there are a few make do with what is available methods. [See Home Vacuum Packing.]

Organizing the equipment: Lists, lists and even more lists. For containers with multiple items print up and laminate a packing list. Another option is there are brush on products used to waterproof maps without the extra weight or much of the stiffness of lamination. Tape it to the outside. To be on the safe side, include a duplicate list inside the kit. Used in conjunction with a grease pencil items that have been removed can be marked. This makes it easier to know what needs replaced. The lists would also contain sections of what to change on a seasonal basis and dated items such as meds or food. If the list is done on a computer the size can be increased to make it more readable or smaller to contain more per sheet. Individual item packages can be labeled using light colored tape [masking, first aid, freezer, etc] and a permanent black marker. The labels and lists also make it quicker to find what you need with minimal searching. It ends the, I know it is in one of these boxes but which one. As Murphy says it will be in the bottom of the last box you search. Another option is to store items or groups of items can be packed in color-coded sacks and boxes. The lists would then also include the appropriate color. A good schedule for checking when items need changed out is the spring and fall time change for daylight savings time. As it is repeatedly announced everywhere.

Trunk Kit
This will be the outside the passenger compartment gear. Trunk is just a generic term used for convenience. The kit includes fluids, tools and some spare parts. The heavy gear the stuff that takes up space. Wait-a-minute, I or the person that the kit is being made for can barely put in gas let alone fix something. Well you or they can learn. Then again maybe someone may stop to help. Without tools, parts or fluids even if they know how fix the problem there will be nothing they can do to help. If you do get to a shop it is Friday afternoon. The mechanic doesn’t stock that fan belt. The part store closed 5 minutes ago it is a long weekend so you’re out of luck until Tuesday morning.

A reasonably complete First Aid Kit. Again maybe more gear than usable by the driver but may be useful if others become available. It can’t be used if you don’t have it.

Vehicle Fluids and Tubes of Goo
These can be scattered around or packed in a single container. These should be somewhat isolated to prevent damage or contamination to other gear in case of leakage.

Antifreeze: Usually comes in 1-gallon jugs. This is needed during the summer as well as winter. A few come premixed but most come in a form that for best results need to be mixed 50/50 with water. You have a choice store as is and hope for a source of water or use your drinking water to dilute. Then you have to mess with mixing. The other option, get an empty antifreeze jug, split evenly between jugs then top off with water.
Motor Oil: 5 Quarts and a filter. Your problem may have been a rock through the filter. Put on a new one and refill the system.
Transmission fluid: 1 Quart. Can also be used in power steering system in an emergency.
Break fluid: 1 Quart
Windshield washer: 1 Gallon.
Radiator stop leak: Bars leak or aluminum flake sealer.
Form-a-Thread: Form-A-Gasket: Loctite: Their names pretty much explain the function. Permatex and Loctite are 2 companies that make these type products. Both have good reputations for quality. There are others. Use the brand you like.
Epoxy: Quick set Epoxy: You want to get on the move as soon as possible.
Putty Epoxy: Two strips that kneed together to form an epoxy compound. Better to fill gaps and holes.
Super Glue:
RTV:
Waterless Hand Cleaner: GoJo or D&L. After you fix it you will want to clean up.
A roll of Shop Towels: Things will need cleaned or wiped down. These are rolls like a very heavy-duty paper towel. There may be other brands But I know these work. You may opt for rags that are reusable.
Tire Repair Kit: Plugs punctures.
Tire Slime: It is supposed to seal tire punctures so that you can re-inflate a flat tire.
OR
Fix-A-Flat: An aerosol can that inflates a tire and incorporates a puncture sealant. WARNING: Some of these products are flammable. If you take the tire to a shop please have the courtesy to inform them. It could dangerous to the repairman’s well being.
WD-40, Blaster or other similar type penetrating oils. Loosens up stuck nuts and bolts. It also displaces water in things like the distributor and plug wires.
Gasline Deicer: 1 Bottle. More if the vehicle has these problems.
Window Deicer:
The last 2 are for cold weather use but can be carried all year if it is more convenient.

The ToolBox: Small hand tools.
Although, if funds permit, you could carry a tool kit that would make the average auto mechanic green with envy. The purpose of these tools is not full-scale auto repair and maintenance. The idea is to be able to perform quick fixes to allow you to get to where things can be properly repaired. Get you home safe to worry about it at a better time instead of being stuck in the middle of the boonies.

Ways to minimize the size and weight of the tool kit.
A full size and a stubby magnetic screwdriver handle. These use interchangeable tips. The tips come in Phillips, Standard, Torx, Tamper Torx, [these can replace the regular Torx.], Allen Wrenches, among other type fasteners. There are also some small handles that accept these bits that function like a ratchet wrench. While these are not as good as full sized dedicated tools they will reduce the weight and bulk of the kit.
A couple of 6 or 8-inch crescent wrenches: Sure crescent wrenches are not the best choice. They tend to round of the nuts. For normal work proper wrenches are the best things to use but we are talking a way to minimize the tool kit size for emergency repairs. Two because there are times one is needed to hold and one to turn.
You may or my not wish to include a small socket set.
1 or 2 Vicegrip pliers: Not only to turn things but they can clamp things together to hold things in place to get out.
Since things will always need to be cut at least some form of knife of your choice. Better more than one.
Wire cutters
Needle Nose Pliers: These could be the vise grip style also.
Hack saw: You may need to cut some metal. Sawzall makes a manual handle that accepts reciprocating saw blades. These blades come in an assortment of both metal and wood. Ranging in size from 3 to 12 inches long. This would be another option to reduce size yet increase versatility.
Magnetic pick up and or finger pick up tool: It would be a real shame to have the problem almost fixed and the drop a part where you can’t reach it. These may just save the day.
Hammer. Sometimes you need to bang things back into place.
A 24 to 36 inch crowbar. Prying a bent fender from a tire. Maybe just a little leverage is needed.
An electrical meter to track down shorted or opened wires.
Either a pair or two disposable gloves or those slightly heavier rubber dishwashing gloves to keep the hands clean. There are also products that come in a tube that can be spread over the hands that act like gloves.
Work Gloves: To protect your hands. It depends on the task. All leather, leather palmed or mechanic type gloves are best.
Tyvek coveralls: These keep your cloths clean. The can also be used as an extra layer for cold times.

This should cover the basics but feel free to add your favorite tool to the mix. Everyone is going to say I carry thus and such specialty tool because. That is neither here nor there. These are the minimums.

Heavier tools:
Tire Chains: The V-bar style is one of the best. Those in the north during winter will see the need. But they are not just for snow and ice. They also add traction in things like mud. Meaning they are a year round item.
Cat Litter: This is a winter item. It is an excellent traction aid if you forgot the chains.
A pair of traction mats: Yes 2, one for each side. These are easy to acquire. A welcome mat sized piece of carpet. Call it 18 inches to 2 feet wide by 3 feet long. These can often be gotten at a carpet store cheaply as remnants or outdated samples. Simply stuff one end under the tire to drive out. These mats can also double a mat to lay upon when working under the car.
Jumper Cables: Forget those el-cheapo 6-foot thin wired ones. They are about worthless. Get ones that are at least 12 feet long with heavy-duty clamps and wiring.
Jack: The minimum is the jack that comes with the car. You can not even change a tire without one. This item can be upgraded as the user sees fit. My opinion is that the Hi-Lift jack is the best. Along with jacking it can perform a whole host of tasks.
Tire iron: Actually a misnomer what most people call a tire iron is a lug wrench. There will always be a need to remove the lug nuts to change a tire. The one that comes with the car will do the job but the star style wrench works so much better. So should be considered as an upgrade.
If you have those lug nuts that incorporate a lock to prevent tire theft. Make darn sure you include at least one of the unlocking devices that act as keys. Better yet a couple in different locations to be safe.
A full sized spare tire: Forget that space saving temporary donuts. And depending on expected conditions that are expected to be encountered a second spare might be a wise move.
A slab of wood: This is to be used as base plate for the jack in soft soil conditions. This makes the car go up rather that the jack sinking. From 1 foot by 1 foot up to 2 feet by 2 feet ¾ inch plywood will work very well. One idea is that if a tub is used for storage cut the wooden slab to fit just under the lid.
A Come-A-Long: This gives you a means to pull a stuck vehicle a short distance or farther with several pulls. This may be just enough to get things going again. It is a good tool even if you have an installed winch.
Ax and Brush Saw: It could be a tree across the road. A compact folding saw could fill the bill for a saw.
Shovel: The most effective for a compact size is the old style military entrenching tool. The kind that can be locked straight as a shovel or 90 degrees as a mattock with a pick.
Rope: It can come in handy.
Tow chain and/or tow strap. Used with another vehicle, a Come-A-Long or Hi-Lift jack can get you unstuck and moving again.
Air Compressor or Tire Pump: To re-inflate that flat.
Fuel Can and Siphon: You can’t siphon tank to tank because of height. The can allows fuel to be bought in from a distant source. That can’t happen to me, I keep at least a half a tank. Well you ran over some junk on the road you didn’t see or could not avoid in time and punched a hole in the tank. The hole can be patched but you then need to refill it. The big debate is safety concerns. Do you carry it full or empty? Your choice.

Ways of holding things together.
Duct tape: The list of uses is endless. The only limitation is the imagination.
Electrical tape: If you fix something electrical it will be beneficial to insulate it.
Wire: Most comes in rolls. It is not necessary to carry the entire roll. Just wrap up some for the kit. A roll can then supply several kits.
Bailing Wire: To city folks it is sometimes called mechanics wire. To tie things together. Slightly smaller than coat hanger wire. Especially items that are to hot for duct tape. It use to be said a long time ago that some older cars were held together with bubble gum and bailing wire. Well duct tape has supplanted the bubble gum. Bailing wire is still effective.
Lock Wire: This is finer gauge than bailing wire. More flexible but serves the same functions.
Electrical Wire: To repair or replace parts of a damaged wiring harness to get power flowing again. You can use heavier gauge wire to replace light gauge but not the other way around. Stripped of insulation it can substitute for the bailing wire.
A few crimp style wire terminals and splices.
Zip Ties: They come in sizes from a couple of inches to feet long. 8 or 9 inch long would seem to be about the optimum length. One or more can be connected together for greater length is needed or several around the object for more strength. Their only problem is being plastic they will melt if exposed to a high heat source.
A jar of various nuts and bolt.
Assorted Hose Clamps: Need more be said?

Spare parts:
This list could be nigh unto endless. Some people carry enough that they could practically build a new vehicle. Again the idea is to include things that the average person can deal with and are the most likely things that go wrong.
Fuses If you replace a fuse and it blows again break out your meter and find the short and fix it.
Fan belt or belts if your car uses more than one.
Radiator hoses: Sure they can be patched with duct tape if you have nothing else.
Sections of fuel and break lines and some couplings.
Spare light bulbs. Tail and side lights. Maybe a single headlight?

Lighting up the night
Odds are stuff happens at inconvenient times like O’ dark thirty.
To warn others of trouble ahead.
Flares and those triangular emergency reflectors. Yes both. Reflectors last but flares are more effective. Flares are also very effective for starting a fire in an emergency.
Work light: They come in incandescent and florescent bulbs. They either plug into the cigarette lighter or have jumper cable like clamps to clip directly to the battery. For the DIY’er you can make your own. Normally when a headlight burns out one element remains. Normally the high beam. Wire can be soldered to the terminals with a plug or clips at the other end. A scrap container that fits the bulb can be fashioned to hold the assembly. For round lights a Clorox bottle is ideal. The bottom of the bottle is cut off leaving the funnel shaped top with handle. The bulb is taped or RTV’ed into the mouth. The cable is then stored through the cap behind the bulb. For square bulb you can adapt a similar container that fits. Just make sure whatever kind used has a long enough wire to reach where it is needed.
Portable light: This would typically be a multi-cell Maglight flashlight. Although this could be almost anything from a sealed beam lantern to various bulb or LED head lamp.

Clothing and such.
The minimums:
Hat: Top choices are Watch Caps, Ski Masks and Balaclava.
Poncho and Liner: To keep you dry and if cold warmer.
A change of heavy duty clothing shirt, pants and socks. In case the ones you have on at the time are damaged, soaking wet or inappropriate for the occasion.
Hiking Boots: Or at least good walking shoes. You may not have good ones on when the problem occurs.
Improvements and additions:
Insulated coveralls are an excellent product.
A couple of blankets and/or sleeping bag. Wool is the best choice for blankets. Although the newer space aged pile blankets are becoming a close second choice. Space blankets either the heavy-duty kind or the ultra-light emergency ones are also a good idea.
Hand warmers: A nice source of portable heat in colder climes.
Does it seem I’m obsessed with the cold? There is not much you can do regarding heat except try to minimize the effect [shade and minimum exertion] and keep hydrated. In case of cold without a heat source or insulation you can be in grave jeopardy of hypothermia. Which can lead quickly to death. The need of including extra clothing is especially important during the in between seasons of spring and fall. In the deep of winter a person is likely to be dressed for the worst conditions. But because of the potential of radical weather changes at these times clothing that is appropriate one day can be totally inadequate the next. 70 degrees with shorts and T-shirts today, rain and freezing tomorrow and up to your who-haw’s in snow drifts the next.

Finally 2 or 3-day supply of food and water sized for the area the driver normally operates in.
Water, obviously persons living in desert areas would require a larger supply due to conditions.
Food should require little or no preparations. If canned food is included don’t forget a can opener. Nothing is more frustrating than to have it and the only way to get into it is bashing it with a rock or prying with a bumper. Could be very wasteful. The choice should be based on 2 factors. Individual taste being for most. Why make the situation worse by having food you can barely tolerate. Second it needs to tolerate the temperature extremes it can be expected to encounter in a vehicle. While many items would taste better heated most canned products are precooked so can be eaten cold straight from the can. You may want to include in your kit a pot to heat water or food. If used to only boil water you don’t have the problem of washing the pot. Food can be heated in the can just remember to open the can first. To supply the heat, there are many commercial stoves. One of the most compact is the Esbit or Trioxane folding stoves. They fold to about the size of a deck of cards. There are additionally numerous designs on the web for making homemade stoves. Like the buddy burner and the tuna candle two or three should do nicely.

Both of these burners are based on the tuna can. These cans are used because they are large enough to be useful but compact enough for practicality. Additionally their height to diameter ratio is such that they are very stable. Making them hard to tip over. A nice safety benefit. They are also used unlike other cans of this general size they are heavier duty and robust enough to withstand the heat they will be exposed to. To construct the candle version one or more wicks are placed in the can and it is filled with paraffin. While producing adequate heat they are the better method for generating light. The buddy burner on the other hand is more adapted for heat production. To construct newspaper [although most any paper will work] or corrugated cardboard is cut into strips the width of which is the height of the can. The strips are then rolled and placed into and filling the can. Melted paraffin is then poured in saturating the material. Pour until it will hold no more. The paper or cardboard then acts like a very large wick. Both of these can be refueled while in use. In both cases take chunks of paraffin chopped from a bar. For the candle place them in the pool of melted wax and the burner just place them on top. The additions will simply melt and be incorporated. As these will get hot during use if you intend to use them in the interior of the car [and that ’s reason they're there] you will need something to set them on to prevent burning or melting a hole in your seats. P. S. Don't forget something or better yet several some things and methods to ignite them. Even more important anything that burns uses air. Crack a window without ventilation you could run out and die.

What are some of the food options that are available? Yes, I know the standard military or survivalist answer is the good old MRE. Not to mention freeze-dried meals from the camping store. But what are the options from the local supermarket? In times not so long ago you rather limited. You had the choice of tuna, sardines in sauce or oil and maybe a can of beans. If you haven't looked lately the shelves have exploded with new choices. These products have been produced for the convenience minded, abet at higher prices. In the past year or so we have seen shelf stable fully cooked foods packed in the foil pouches. These are nice for weight savings.
Star-Kist has added tuna.
Recently I have seen hamburger to full dishes so package.
Dinty Moore has always had its beef stew in the can. Couple years ago they started putting it in plastic tubs to heat in the microwave. They have also added pot roast and mashed potatoes and Chicken with stuffing. Uh, Oh, I forgot to pack the microwave! Never fear while they would probably taste better heated, as they are fully cooked they can be eaten cold.
Assorted canned meats chicken, ham, beef, corned beef and yes, good old reliable Spam. I can hear the outraged cry’s even as I type. Spam, Yuck!!! Baloney and I don’t mean the meat. I think it has really become a status symbol to disparage Spam. The same folks that boo and hiss rave about those Danish canned hams. I have eat both and there isn’t that much difference between the two. Spam is the poor man’s canned ham.
The fish line has expanded also tuna, sardines, shrimp, clams and more.
There are various drink mixes to make your water taste better.
Uncounted ready to serve soups, stews, even Chef Boyardee pastas and Spaghetti O’s.
Pasta and rice dishes that you add boiling water some in their own container. Can you say Cup O’ Noodle.
Hot instant cereals like oatmeal and grits.
Power Bars in many styles and flavors.
Cereal Bars some even have milk added.
Single serve coffee for those that can’t live without, hot chocolate milk already included and tea bags for hot drinks.
Bouillon to add flavor.
Boxes of juice for the kids.
Sports drinks with electrolytes added for dehydration.
Some of the old standards.
Nuts mixed or single flavored for protein and fats.
Dried fruit an it ain’t just raisins anymore.
Hard candies and M & M’s for that I’m draggin’ and need a boost now feeling.
There are now many sealed trail mixes on the market or you can mix your own from the above.
If you are really into DIY you can make jerky, dry your own fruits and veggies for individual snacks up to complete dried meals. Add water to hydrate, heat and eat.

You can also take a page from Hollywood disaster scripts. In what I am convinced were product placement ads. Government officials with warning stocking up for long-term disaster were stocking cases of Ensure. This product is meant as a highly nutritious food supplement drink. There is also Pediasure for children. Both are designed in several flavors to appeal to the palate. While these may be more beneficial in the long term it could be considered in this instance because it combines nutrition and fluids.

Well the trunk is stuffed so full its tied down with bungies. Not really, while all this gear seems like a lot of stuff it is surprising how small a bundle it actually is. The liquids requiring the most space and adding the most weight.

Kit(s) number two the driver seat accessible one. The whole works doesn’t go anywhere without a driver. So if you do get trapped inside the gear needs to be reachable by the person that will be there if no one else is. Yes there is much duplication with the trunk kit. The differences are mainly in volume.
Water or some form of liquid to keep you going. On average without fluids to keep you hydrated you have about 3 days give or take. A couple of bottles with those sports cap tops from a half a liter to about a quart will work well. I know it is foolish to buy bottles of water or the like. But you are buying the bottle. It can always be refilled from the tap. Although you can carry sports drinks, sodas or fruit juices. Whatever tickles your fancy.
A small First Aid Kit. [FAK]
One or two fire extinguishers: In spite of the fact that a larger one can be in the trunk the speed at which a fire can spread because of the flammable liquids in a vehicle. At least one small hand held one should be within reach of the driver. You may not have time to get to the trunk.
A tuna candle or buddy burner for heat or light. The ones in the trunk are spares or to increase the output.
Some munches. Sure you don’t “need” food for about 3 weeks but something to gnaw on will keep up your energy and spirits. A positive attitude is of utmost importance. Load the dice in your favor. Go for comfort foods. Hard candies work well for this. If you don’t chew the flavor lasts a long time and gives the allusion of eating. I like lemon drops. Power bars supply more nutrition and fair better than regular candy bars.
Call it a day’s worth of food and water inside the passenger compartment. When combined with the trunk supplies it adds up to a 72 Hr. kit.
A nice stadium blanket won’t look out of place and might come in handy.
An emergency space blanket. Small compact and useful.
Flashlight(s): The LED types are great as they have a long life. Sure most of us are no longer afraid of the dark. But that glow can be a comfort while trapped awaiting a rescue.
One of those cigarette pack sized emergency poncho. To keep you dry for quick fixes or to get to the trunk for your main gear while staying dry.
2 books. Why 2? One, a good survival book of your choice. Keep’s you brushed up if the skills are needed. The other a good reading book. If stranded either will help keep the mind occupied while awaiting help. It helps past the time. Maybe a deck of cards or travel games for the same reason.
A good pocketknife or multi-tool in case you forgot the one that should be in your pocket.
A couple of ways to make fire.
Plus your normal daily pocket carry items.

The next few items are a toss up. Most may be considered wilderness oriented survival gear.

Do you include one or more firearms?
First is the personal concern. Do you want one or not based one personal beliefs.
Next are the legal issues. Check what laws may be applicable.
The reason for carrying it? Is the setting urban where it is for defense against attack by criminals? The choice would tend towards handguns for the ability to conceal it, accessibility and maneuverability in the close confines of a vehicle. Or in a more rural setting where it would be more likely be used for food procurement or animal attack. These would then tend more toward the long arms category. The specific choice would be personal preference based more on the ability to handle. It is better to use a small caliber that you can hit the target with rather than miss with something bigger.
Finally cost. They ain’t cheap and it costs to practice enough to become and stay proficient. If firearms are a yes get the highest quality you can afford not necessarily the most expensive. If your life may depend on it better be reliable.

Foraging gear? Such as nets, snares or fishing gear. Again it is a choice. Most of this gear is more long term or BOB oriented.

Water purification? Either chemical of filter methods maybe both. Again more long term. But should be seriously considered, as water is life.

Shelter needs? Because the car can be considered shelter you may or may not want to include these as they are more BOB related. Although they would range from the simplest form beyond clothing as a contractor grade trash bag. More advanced as in tarps. To even tents. Tents can be a Bivy Sack to a Popup camper.
.
Finally cash, money, currency, funds, assets, loot or lucre. Coin of the realm comes in many forms. A prepaid phone card will allow you to contact family or friends to send aid or to let them know what’s up and where. Sure 911 is a free call but what is a personal emergency to you may not be very important to the authorities. They tend to frown on emergency calls that they deem a nuisance. Plastic and checks are convenient. In some situations or dealing with some individuals cash is the only option that will be accepted. That tow truck driver that happens by may be a jerk and demand money up front or you watch him drive off into the sunset. He knows if he over charges you can stop a check or charge but it probably would cost you more than the fee to get cash back. Therefore not worth your effort. While large bills are easier to carry consider that those you are dealing with may be unable or just unwilling to make change. A prime example is some of the things that happened during the blackout in New York. Some venders were charging 5 and 10 dollars for what was normally a 1-dollar bottle of water. Sign says 10 dollars a bottle, cash only, no change, one to a customer. You have a hundred-dollar bill. Either turn it over for one or next. You are not going to be able to fight the couple of hundred people waiting in line behind you. So a selection of bills is needed. While having the cash available is a great temptation to dip into the till for something you happen to want at the time. Try to resist, I know, I know you promise faithfully you will put it back. But an IOU won’t do you much good if you really need it in an emergency.

The purpose of this is not just another list of what is in my car kit but more categories with some ideas of dealing with them. Just to get the thought processes going on what you should carry.

Regardless of the amount or type of gear that is carried it does not guarantee safety. Equipment with out the knowledge to use it is a waste of space, effort and expense. On the other hand with enough skills many of your needs can be fulfilled via improvisation from sources found around you. Critical parts for a vehicle can’t be pulled from thin air. You need a balance. Skills to accomplish required tasks. The tools to perform and to make it easier to do the job. And an open mind to make do with what is available.

QUOTE: we are talking about a Zero/Zero engagment. If it goes beyond 30 seconds and 3 rounds, I will be very much surprised.

Leigh,

No arguments my friend. I just don't want people to get the impression there is such a thing as a magic bullet.

Knowing the strengths and limitations of a particulare ammo can help someone make a suitable choice. In my case, with revolvers, had there been no pre-target bullet tumbling I may have chosen these for personal use. A longer barrel may mitigate this tumbling, but I have not followed up on this.

I think they have great merit where limited penetration it crucial (air martial, nulcear facility security, apartment dweller, etc).

I still consider them to be niche ammo, but if your niche fits, use them. I was really just trying to share my own thoughts, analysis, and experiences with this ammo.

There are no magic bullets (especially from a handgun). NO handgun ammo will guarantee a "one shot stop". There are cases of goblins receiving 12 guage blasts to the "vitals" yet still continued causing grief till they bled out.

Which brings me back to my personal priority.... Shot placement. A hit with a .22 will always trump a miss from a .50 caliber. Practice, practice, practice.

Cheers, TR

My house has never felt the need for more than the humble Ka-bar when it comes to matters of honor- the d't tang has moving parts. Nothing that is ment to be driven into an enemy's skull should have moving parts.

And the gurka's do a better Mek'leth.

Of course, I've also scandelized a crowd by saying that John Wayne stands at the right hand of Kahless. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

*shakes head* sorry, everyone. I had an ADD moment, and now look what's happened.

I prefer a Seazaxe myself (traditional Saxon knife). Qua'Pah! my friend.

Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam! yInlu'taH 'e' bajnISlu'!

(it's been too long since I've had to conjucate verbs in tlhIngan Hol)

For those who've never studied Klingon, the above means:
Today is a good day to die! Survival must be earned!

Raven,
All I can say is, Amen Brother!

Leigh,

I can't remember who sai, but someone told me a long time ago, that when all else is gone, all a man has left IS his Honor!
You take away his Honor.....well.....in that case you have just made a very, deadly enemy!, with nothing to lose!
It's something I never forget when I am dealing with people.....for their sake....and mine!

Krell

PS....there are two people in a REAL knife fight....the one who goes straight to the Morgue, and the one who heads straight to the Emergency Room.....the Morgue possibly later anyway!

Raven,

Don't sweat it! It's Great to see at least someone in here has a sense of humor!!!

Krell

Norad,

What is this "Stand Your Ground" Law that you mentioned......
krell

I own a CZ75B, a Czech midsize, 9mm, that I have loved ever since I shot the first one over 20 years ago. My wife is a big girl, and even though she's no expert, she know's to hold it correctly, using a two hand grip, and not to EVER let anyone get within 7 feet of her if possible. I knw, I know, for the most part, close range shootings are UNDER 7 feet, but this is inside my home.

First 2 rounds are glazer Safety Slugs.....she know's that if she ever has to pull the trigger, it's a "Double-Tap" to Center Mass! If the Perp is still standing, then it's a Double-Tap with HrdroShock's! One way or another, whoever the Perp may be, they are going to the Floor!

Krell

Good points, Raspy, but you are going way overboard on what I had in mind. She needs a lot of things and what you point out is good, but she'll need a U HAUL. Come up with something more basic and simple and compact and don't worry so much about following Homeland Insecurity's ever-so-Katrina-wise instructions.

This was probably lost in the thread.. Usually, if your life is threatened, your first option is to flee.. If you are trapped and your life is in danger, only then are you allowed to use lethal force.

Stand your ground changes that. If you feel your physical life is in danger, you have the right to defend yourself. No need to attempt to run away.