Have anyone read Into Thin Air by Jon Krakauer?
Its about climbing mount Everest and how things went terribly wrong up there.
If you have, did you like it or not?

thanks

Alex

Redflare,

Loved the book. I picked it up after watching the ABC Movie and assorted nmews reports. Beck Weathers (the Doctor with frostbite) lives in the DFW area so our local papers carried extra material.

I found his story to be inspiring - he seemed to have willed himself to survive.

Krakauer doesn't pull a lot of punches in the book - particularly when questioning the judgement of taking inexperienced people up to the mountain because its the 'in thing" (i.e., the NY socialite who was 'carried' and dragged up the mountain by the sherpas when they could have been working on more useful tasks).

After reading it, I gave up my dream of climbing Everest. I'm not going to be in the condition needed to complete the trip, and I'm darned if I would put others' lives at risk just so that I could brag about it.

It is a good book but you will need to read The Climb by Anatloi Boukreve (I think I blew the spelling on that). Into Thin Air put a lot of accusation Anatoli's way and he was more of a hero than a JK reports.
Climing 8000 meter peaks will never be safe even when it is relatively easy.

I just got back from the base camp after few weeks in Everest region. I read the book as it is probably mandatory handbook before you leave for Nepal. I worked out of base camp for a while with Himalayan Rescue Group and I saw condition of climbers that were coming down after attempting to clear the path or carry over supplies to camp 2 and 3 for final push later. I saw what lack of O2 can do and being paramedic in NYC I found how typical stuff we do in back home could not be done due to shortage of equipment or manpower. It seems that everyone has an opinion about "Into thin air". It seems that everyone loves to be a monday morning quarterback. Yes mistakes were made and it seems that pride costed people lives and limbs. But it happens everyday on Everest and we just don't hear about it. It is my dream to climb Everest one day but that can wait. Getting to the top is 1/3 of the fun. Trying to get back down is a totally different story and that's where problems start. Ethics, honor and friendship have little different meaning up there. People are driven up by their need of personal accomplishment and most likely after group pays $70000 for a climbing permit very few would give up the spot to help somebody since it would most likely cost them the ascent. Also sherpas are needed since they carry the supplies and lead sherpa is in charge of the route which even if laid out by previous team it is still better to be cleared thru by experienced guide. When I was on the mountain about 10 climbers died and 3 sherpas.


As a matter of fact two days before I left Australian climber was left behind to die by his teammates and was found by American climber Dan Mazur who gave up his chance to climb Everest so he can save this guy. This called for review of ethics and practices of high priced expeditions. Will it change something? No. But after endless talks with climbers both who made it and didn't it's not how much you can endure. It is about knowing when to quit.

I watched 2 shows recently on Everest (Insomnia - they were back to back and finished at 4am). Anyway, the first one went into some amazing ethical questions faced by climbers on their way up running into dying climbers. I was continually amazed at the situational ethics and, in particular, the ability to rationalize the fact that if someone was 'near death' that it was just as ethical to move forward and leave them behind as if they were dead. Simply incredible.

The second one then went into how on a historical expedition to find out if Hillary wasn't truly the first to the top saved 2 sets of climbers from death (1 did die on the mountain, but he was too far gone I guess).

I can't believe the incredible hubris that is involved in climbing Everest. In the Death Zone, there are a lot of people who have no business being up there. Money alone is why they even get the chance at bragging rights.

It takes a hardened soul to do what these people did, and from the sound of it, it's business as usual on the rock. I wouldn't ever want to put myself into a position where I might have to make the choice between completing a very expensive personal goal and saving another person's life. I know which I'd choose. Even though these people have to live with their choices, I find it to be an impressive show of will. And I suppose that in reality, those who died had nobody to blame but themselves. They know what they are getting into when going up. I find it all rather fascinating.

I agree with Brian, read both for sure. If you really want to get a perspective on Everest climbing and where it has degenerated to, read Americans on Everest from the 1963 Expedition, Everest, the West Ridge, Everest, North Face and the book on the 1953 expedition Conquest of Everest. Today it is fashionable and there are "guide" services that will do the logistics to get nearly anyone to Everest for a price. While I can totally understand the desire for a person to want to reach the summit of Everest, I also feel many do not earn the right to get there by years of hard work learning mountaineering techniques and being invited to be on an expedition. Many mountains are available to "climbers" today, all for a price and not much emphysis on skills and ability.
Many that attempt Everest today pay around $70K plus the puchase of personal equipment to get there. Consider also that most novice ( and many expert) mountaineers are not always in any physical or mental state to be helpful to a stranded climber when they are at 27,000 ft plus. It is amazing to me how someone can even consider a rescue at those altitudes with little or no help. Not to mention the loss of their own chance which they paided a considerable sum to attain.
To understand the evolution of high-altitude climbing, read the 1953 and 1963 books, then read a current one such as Into Thin Air. The periods of acclimitization and the oxygen provided to modern Everest climbers is way below the levels that the original climbs were accomplished. Sure, there have been many now that have been to the top of the world without any oxygen but to someone that has been over 20,000 feet without oxygen, I cannot imagine going 9,000 feet higher over more techincally challenging terrain!
If you really want a perspective on Himalayan climbing, read some books on Annapurna and K2, both far more techincally difficult than Everest. Thankfully, no one offers climbs of those peaks for a price. They have maintained their appeal as mountains for true mountaineers.

There's a lot I have never understood about fools and money.

Just within the past few weeks, a local woman finally made it to the top of Everest... on the third try. So that's about $120,000 plus equipment? To climb a rock?

"Because it's there" isn't good enough. I doubt that the "challenge" or all the other reasons usually offered have much to do with it. If the status value were removed, how many people would be climbing Everest?

Is it any different from the sorry people who feel the need to buy expensive cars, uncommon breeds of dogs or cats, or exotic pets or $15,000 watches, or a big hulking AWD SUV that doesn't have a scratch on it? Isn't it just another pathetic way to say, "Look at me! Look what I did! Look how wonderful I am!"?

I've heard that the trail to the top of Everest is littered with dead bodies. When I hear of yet another person dying trying to "conquer" Everest, I just shake my head and wonder at the pathetic people who have such low self-esteem that they are driven to do something that is so.... inconsequential.

$120,000 to feed your ego and impress your friends.

Pathetic.

Sue

I agree. We'll remember Hillary and Norgay because they were the first, and Mallory and Irvine because they died trying to be the first. The current crop are just tourists. Ugh.

Having just finished "Into Thin Air", I'm resurrecting this post. I'm not going to pass any judgments on the people, but rather am more interested in the equipment that is used on an Everest expedition. Obviously, I'm never going to buy an oxygen system, or most any of the other gear they use, but am curious about what makes and models of gear are up to that task.

I did a little googling, and found this company. Hopefully this will give you a starting point in your research...

Sue, please don't hold back, tell us what you really think But for the record, I agree. Folks who are into climbing and train to take on a major challenge is one thing. Paying big bucks for a hike to the top with the necessary gear and O2 carried by sherpas and then leaving someone behind because they're almost dead is inhuman and pathetic.

The "accomplishment" of climbing Everest no longer impresses me. Send me a postcard from K2.

Sue - I agree with most of what you say but will just note that I don't think leaving people for dead is exclusive to Everest.

In any major city in the US, millions of people walk by homeless people lying on the ground wrapped in cardboard or blankets without stopping to try to help or even seeing if the person is injured or dead. Yes, the homeless folks will probably live through the night, but it is much easier for city passersby to help them than it is for someone to drag an injured/lifeless body down from 27,000 feet. And people (myself included) make the same excuses for not helping - that the other person is in the situation they are in because of "choices" they made.

This isn't some sort of criticism of you - just an observation.

I have read it. What I think about the people who climb Chatamunga and why they do it cannot be put on this forum. It's not exactly printable.

Ok, Having said that: The only thing that most of them care about is "bagging" the mountain. They don't care about their own self preservation, anyone else, their husbands, wives, kids or bit on the side. If they did, they would not be there. The summit is in the 8000m death zone. That is the outside edge of a survivable enviroment for humans. Even with supplimental oxygen. You really need a lightweight pressure suit.

There was a program aired recently here in the U.K. An ex-Royal Marine, which is another word for Hard Man in the best sense of the word was challenged to attempt the climb. He got quite a long way up then stopped. His body would not let him go any further. What had happened was that his sense of self preservation and his desire to return to his loved ones had kicked in. So he about turned and decended.

Most interesting thing was the interview with one of the people with him. The gentleman concerned (and I use that word very loosely) did everything short of outright calling him a coward. Used terms like "not properly motivating himself" etc.

I sat there watching the program thinking ..... you jack. The Royal Marine showed far more courage and good judgement in aborting the climb. than any of the other people on the program.

One of the most difficult things to teach is: Know when it is Time To Get Out Of Dodge and having the moral courage to do it. Even when some loud mouthed ....... is sneering, jeering, calling you a coward, threatening you with violence etc and who is, if the truth be told, probably very scared.

Well, to be honest I think that most people are afraid of street people. Right or wrong that's just the way it is. And some of them can be extremely dangerous. You can't really say that about somebody dying at the top of Everest.

Norad - I'd wager that you place your life in greater danger by trying to move a disabled climber down from 27,000 feet than you do by asking a homeless person if they are okay and then calling for medical care if they are not. My guess is that most people are either afraid of/disgusted by homeless people.

I use "you" generically here.

(And - to be clear - I don't have a quick and easy solution for solving the homeless problem - I just raise it because I think it shows that there is a continuum of "not caring about other people enough to do anything about it" and that almost all of us are somewhere in that continuum and not at either end of it.)

And in some cities, if you stopped for every "homeless" person taking a nap on the sidewalk, you would never get where you are going...

I'd wager a climber risks his life more by continuing the climb than stopping to help. But that's really the point. All that matters to some of these intrepid mountaineers is making the summit. If even their own life takes a backseat to that, then the life of some unknown 3rd party isn't even going to register.

By contrast most people avoid the homeless because they are afraid they'll get a brick in the face, or something similar. Even then, if they saw one gasping out their last breaths I think most would call 911--from a safe distance.


And I do agree with your "continuum" theory. It's just that I think anybody who passes a dying person without stopping to render aid just so they can summit Everest is way, way past where most of society finds itself.

Yes, I liked it. Into the Wild (his latest book) is better still.

I enjoy reading Krakauer's books. For some reason his writing style just suits me. I liked Into Thin Air and I particularly like 'Under the Banner of Heaven' (not particularly survivalist or edc oriented but a good read).

Once you go into Himalayas you will want to come back over and over again. When you start trekking at first, when lack of the oxygen kicks in and you feel miserable and every step up might as well be a mile you question yourself: this is my time off; I should be on the beach somewhere drinking beer and relaxing. And next day is not easier by any means. And than you summit something small and you catch a bug. Every time you climb you smile and you are looking forward to aches and pains. And you want to summit higher and higher mountains until there is nothing left but Everest.

I've been to Nepal twice and worked as a medical professional on Everest and just did trekking on Annapurna Circuit. You can't describe the desire to summit the mountain that you see in peoples eyes. I've talked to both people who were going up and people who were coming down. I shook hands and drank tea with sherpas who summited Everest in double digits. Most of them know what they are getting into and whoever is cutting corners by not setting right camps, right lead ropes, being tied up or going up to fast knows the dangers and consciously chooses so for whatever reasons. Some are reckless, some work under time constrains and some have summit fever.

But in the end it boils down to the expedition money and sponsorship. It takes a pretty penny to get up there and most likely it is your only chance in the lifetime. When greed and desire overcome everything else what makes us human than tragedy happens.

Two years ago (may 06) American climber gave up his chance to summit in order to help a Canadian who was left behind to die by his buddies. This is the last you've heard of American climber since he lost his chance to go to the top. He saved a life of a stranger giving up his dreams. He did a noble thing but it costed him dearly. Many people shook his hand just to laugh behind his back. In the end I was trying to look him up and I don’t thing he was back on Everest as of yet.

And about your Marine... It has nothing to do with stamina or conditioning. His heart is in a different place than a heart of a climber. He knew when to quit because the mountain had no meaning for him. He valued his life and his family more than he valued a piece of rock. I bet you he would die for his country and his family just like some climbers would die trying to summit Everest.

I really do love Himalayas and hope that one day I will be able to summit the Everest.

Just to make a small correction: if it's the story I think you're referring to, it was a Canadian climber who abandoned the summit attempt to rescue an Australian.

Story here.

Looks like it was an international effort. Story here.

From the article: "The team consisted of Daniel Mazur Team Leader (US), Andrew Brash (Canada), Myles Osborne (UK) and Jangbu Sherpa (Nepal)."

Kudos to them all. It's nice to see that there are still some decent folks attempting to summit.