I have been occupying my time lately with a new project. I bought a jeep and decided that if I am going to own another one, I am going to fix it up the way I want. I thought that it is about time I show off my project and get (what I hope) is some input on what you think of it. Hopefully it will be Kavanaugh certified. Lets have it ... good or bad.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6dc04b3127cce9733f897dabd00000016100Aas2zhmzZsWMg

If you are going to be euthanizing the jeep, you might want something heavier. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Looks good on the outside, but what's inside? Spares and specs lists?

I'm looking at an Outback as my next rig becuase it's big enough for me to sleep in the back, and still have room for four REAL spares, a fiver each of gas and water, my milk crate of car stuff, and BOB with extra bits. Around here, there are a ton of them on the road and not so many in the scrap yard, so they must do well in winter.

I like it, however if I were to have a BOV of this size it would be filled with stuff. How about pulling a small heavy-duty military trailer with most of your BO stuff in it? That way you can set up camp and still have a vehicle to use for a beer run! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Specs: 3" lift with 33" BF Goodrich All terrain (mistake- mud tires next time), 8000 lbs winch, rock climber grill guard, 3/8'" clevises attached to frame. skid plates and differentail guard. Quick release sway bar. it has a 4.0 liter straight 6 with K&N air filter, power aid fuel diffuser (? spelling) and a superchip computer chip. Inside it is more or less stock . I built an overhead console for CB, toggle switches for the lights and an accessory fuse block. It has an Olympic storage rack over the top of the whole thing and (not in picture) 4 off road lights mounted to the rack. I can attach my shovel and axe to the rack and I can throw my extra spare on the top, as well as mountain bikes and "stuff". In the back cargo area I attached cargo tie down straps to the floor and quick release webbing straps to secure stuff to the full roll cage inside (BOB bags don't move". On the back I made a gerry can holder that slides into my receiver hitch. I can carry 3 gerry cans (all locked down with locks and cables) and still tow my jetski or trailer. It has snow chains for all 4 wheels and I carry a 50 caliber ammo box for my "possibles" box. I have my medic bag in there, winch controls, tools, extra clevises, electrical repair stuff and some para-cord.

All in all, I am now broke greasey and confused as to who the lady that keeps coming out yelling at me to stop spending all my time and money on the thing. (secretly she really likes it). Its fun and the infinite possibilies of customizing it makes it mine. Not going to try to change your mind about the outback - but take a hard look at how much you are able to "do" to it and what you want it to do.

As far as winter driving - it has a LOT of power. If you are not aware of how you are driving, it will change directions on you - quick! I was able to go places that a Landrover was not - just because of the weight factor. With everything on it, it weighs in at just over 4000 lbs. Personal opinion - the things are almost bullet proof.

Forgive me for going on about it - I am proud of it. A lot of work and personality went into building it. Thanks for looking and asking.
<img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'd say you are set up to get out of dodge.

Jim,

Do you know Jeep is putting out a 4-door Wrangler later this year? I really like it and may buy one. I am due for a new vehicle and I was thinking of getting a Jeep Liberty but the 2007 4-door Wrangler looks much better!

Here is a link:
http://www.jeep.com/en/07wranglerunlimited/index.html

Reminds me of a cross between a jeep and a hummer. I like it!

Jim,

Our family is facing the same situation. Our 11 year old twins moved from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts. We now have 3 boys that are into camping and when my wife and I want to go with we have a very hard time getting all the camping gear and the five of us into her Honda Odyssey let alone a Jeep.

I have been thinking that maybe we should get a small cargo trailer. We could leave most of our camping gear in there all the time. That would free up the interior of the vehicle for people comfort instead of having gear crammed around people's feet like we do now.

I am thinking of getting a 2007 4-door Jeep Wrangler but it would not have enough cargo capacity for the five of us to go camping. I would have to get something like a Chevy Suburban to carry all our stuff. I don't want to drive one of those to work everyday!

If I really have to Bug out I'm taking one of these:



Forget traffic, I'll just ride right over ya. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I test drove one of the jeep liberties and didn't care for it. It was nothing that I could put my finger on just didn't want to buy it. I did, however, end up buying a Ford Escape for the wife. Love that vehicle. It was a reasonable price and had all the whistles and bells that she wanted. It also gets great fuel mileage. We took it out in the snow and it performed GREAT!!!. The tires are not as agressive as they should be for hard playing, but that is not why we bought the SUV. Take a look at it, maybe it will serve you purposes. I looked at the Xtrera and it was a close second choice. It was about $3000.00 more and had less options. It was a good vehicle though.

I cant afford the fuel of the suberbans or Yucons etc... for the 1 or 2 times that I will be going into the hills a month. Plenty of space, if you can afford to get all that stuff up to the hills in the first place.

I like your idea of a trailer. I have a Lowes special trailer (4x8 flat bed with a ramp). If I need more room then the escape and the jeep, I hook up. Problem being is that it is not enclosed. Anything on it WILL be wet, dirty, muddy etc...

On E-Bay they have a few Bantam trailers made for the jeeps in WW II. They are tough as nails if rust and previous owners have not taken too much of a toll on them.

If you test drive it, let me know how you like it. I have been a Jeep fan for as long as I have been driving (just after the model T it feels like).

Hummer has a LOT more room. Unfortunatly I am not in the correct tax bracket to be able to buy a Hummer. One of these days....

Thanks for the look. Glad you like it.

You'd better hurry up. The Hummer H1 is being phased out by General Motors.

"There is nothing so frightening as ignorance in action."

A trailer is a great idea. You can even leave it packed if you have a good secure place to store it. I would like to have one like in your pic, perfect size!
As for a vehicle for your needs, you could get a used something as a wilderness thrasher. I bought an Isuzu Trooper with lots of space, decent off road performance and sort of expendable. It does not get the best of milage on the highway though. About 20 MPG tops.
As for bugging out of PHX, I doubt any of us will get far in a crisis. It took 2 hours to get 20 miles on I-17 last night and that was without any accidents to tie things up. Just the usual on a Sunday night heading back to the city. Imagine if everyone were trying to leave the city at the same time, you would not get anywhere except stuck in your vehicle. A good plane would be really handy to own!! A Beaver would be perfect. Maybe someday I will be rich:)

That I like! I also like the Toyota FJ Cruiser except for the stupid Sub-woofer in the back end! You have to wonder who they are targeting with that bling piece of #mU&,<! If you rip out the subwoofer, it would be a decent utility ride!

Here's a do-it-yourself alternative:
http://www.4x4bodies.com/

Excuse my ignorance, but why would you want a 4x4 as a bug-out vehicle? My daily use vehicle is my bug-out car: a 1997 Ford T-bird.

I can carry everything I need, and can pull a nicely filled trailer. Road speed seems to be more important than off-road capability IMHO.

Range will be most important and good highway milage won't help much when your stuck in the stop and go traffic jams while trying to bug out. Most cars, while having great highway milage don't get much better stop and go milage than a 4x4 and usually have smaller gas tanks.
You may need to hop a curve or drive onto the median to get around an accident or stalled/out of gas vehilce. You also may be involved in minor fender benders as road rage goes to an all time high and you want a frame based vehilce instead of a unibody for those situations.
Past history shows that bugging out means you will be sitting in traffic for a long time, you want a good sized fuel tank and good battery and starter so you can shut off the engine and sit for a while and a vehilce that can idle for long periods of time. Getting stuck for hours on I70 in the middle of summer when the PA road departmnet decided to shut down a lane out front wheel drive minivan would slowly overheat even without running the A/C. My 4x4 truck I can sit with the A/C on full blast for as long as I have fuel with no problems overheating.

I think the mentality behind a 4x4 is sound. To counter your roadspeed argument, not only can today's 4x4 vehicles reach standard highway speeds they often also have 2H and A4WD (2 wheel and automatic 4x4). On top of that, I've seen Katrina and numerous earthquake and hurricane newscasts where massive interstate traffic jams are the norm. That's even with all lanes going outbound during the emergency.

Having a 4x4 to take you on roads less traveled in order to bypass some of that exiting traffic is a great Idea. I don't know that I would want to haul a trailer on really nasty backroads, but it might be possible. In that case I think I'd also want a PTO for real off-road work. In a worst case scenario, should you need to abandon a trailer (on or off road), you'll be able to transfer far more intp a 4x4 SUV type vehicle.

Anyway, your T-Bird might be nice for cruising down the road. I just hope you vacate the area before the highway slows to a crawl. I guess it all boils down to utility and planning. If you have your exit strategy planned and have multiple eventualities covered then you may not need the utility of 4x4. I drive my Chevy Trailblazer pretty much daily and it's a nice ride. I've taken it offroad, but it's not really hardened for rock climbing or anything like that. Still, it has no problems in muddy unpaved terrain.

To each his own, and I'll go with the extra options that 4x4 bring me.

And even 4x4 isn't necessary, I've taken a 2wd furthur off road than what 99% of 4x4 owners ever do but having 4x4 is like having a fire extinguisher or BOB or PSK, its another piece of gear to have when needed. And modern 4x4's it doesn't give any negatives, the mpg difference between a 4x4 and 2wd truck is maybe .5mpg highway and there isn't really any more maintenance like there was years ago (opponents of 4wd will list mpg and maintenance ans negatives).
The thing that hurt my 2wd truck was not having a low range so when I was offroad it was geared too high.
Though what I said above applies to "part time 4wd systems" there are now many different variations of full time 4wd and AWD that do hurt the milage and cause extra maintenance, for example my v8 powered full size truck gets better gas milage than the v6 AWD tire eating minivan we made the mistake of buying.

Yeah, if there's one thing I haven't been happy with it's the AW4D. It seems almost randomly activated and on snow has nearly caused an accident as it "slips" into 4x4 and traction was momentarily lost. And I avoided any AWD vehicles I saw for the reasons you mentioned.

When I owned my old school boxy 2WD cavalier and took it out hunting, trust me when I say it had no business going where it went. I'm not saying 2WD couldn't get you where you want to go, even partly off-road or back road. Like you said, a 4x4 is yet another tool in the arsenal. I was just trying to point out it's utility as it was questioned. I've been places in a 4x4 I am quite certain would simply stop any 2WD that attempted it.

My wife does not like the idea of pulling a trailer.

We are now thinking of getting a 2006 Toyota Tacoma crew-cab, 4x4, TRD off-road. It will seat five adults comfortably and hold all our camping gear. It has a locking rear differential and a 115V AC outlet in the back of the bed. It looks like a serious multi-purpose vehicle!

Need extra range? Throw some gas cans in the bed. Need to go down nasty dirt roads? 4x4 with low range and locking differential, if needed! <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I have a Mazda Tribute (same as the Escape) that I use as a run-about vehicle on the job site. I have taken the thing off road more times than I can count and I'm amazed how well it does. I wouldn't take it rock crawling, but I've got through quite a few tough spots. If it had a low range gear and another two inches of ground clearance I think it would do extremely well off road. As a bonus, it has a very high rollover rating for an SUV and handles extremely well in the snow.

Craig, I have a 2000 Tacoma TRD 2WD with a locking diff. It's quit a bit smaller than the 2006 and is a great vehicle. The 2006 is a better "mid size" than mine, but even so the 2000 tows very respectably. You hardly know you have a trailer (of resonable size of course) behind it. I've trailered my off hiway pop-up with it just this last weekend, back beyond sanity for most people. I can only imagine the 2006 would be even better. Maybe with some toutalage you wife would get used to towing, mine has. Starcraft makes a sweet off-road capable popup, check out the Startcraft 11 RT. It will pretty much go anywhere your truck will go. The 13 RT has a potty and shower which will please the wife.

Exactly. All the scenarios so far have not demonstrated the superiority of a 4x4 in a bug out situation.

Secondary roads? No problem. I have them mapped, and have ridden them to make sure they were traversable.

A SUV carries more? No problem. I have vittles, water, dog and cat food at my destination all ready.

As with any survival gear, geographic location can seriously determine the value of a particular item. Owning a 4X4 in a metropolilan area such as Denver is useless if you can't get out of town ahead of eveyone else. For someone such as myself, it is a far more viable option due to multiple, less traveled evacuation routes. I've hauled my lifted, off-road camper into and out of places that people with less testicular fortitude would dare to tread.

That doesn't mean it's right for eveyone, but it's an option that those than can take advantage of should at least consider.

I normally haul my camper with an 87 Jeep Cherokee with a modest lift, locking diffs, and 31X10.50 tires. I've drug the frame and had the tires hanging 12 inches off the ground, not a pretty sight. My Tacoma has taken it places nearly as ugly.

You can be as prepared as you want to be with $300.00 folding pocket knives and bright assed flashlights, but if you don't have the gonads to survive you'll die anyway.

Thanks for your insight DeserRat.

I live south of Denver (COS), and my bug-out location is Salida. We're ready for anything! (asteroids from space and zombies excluded)

In your case you are surrounded with a veritable maze of paved roads that can be used for evacuation. I have I-40 and route 66 which will both be clogged beyond belief in the event of a catastrophic event (earthquake, whatever). I have no choice but to use a miriad of "old" unpaved mining and back country roads to get to my Bug Out Point.

These avenues REQUIRE an off-road capable vehicle, be it 4X4 or good 4X2. A typical passenger car would never get you out. I too have pre-positioned stores which will reduce bug-out time and load bearing requirements, but if I can't get to them they don't do me any good.

Very true, I had to compromise with the wife though. She wanted a "minivan" so I bought her an AWD Pontiac Montana All the comforts of Home but built on a Chevy 1500 truck frame. I put an auxillary airbag lift on it which when pumped up lifts it 4 inches. I put a little bit larger tires, 235X75, 15s on it. It's been tested on some pretty ugly trails and will suffice quite nicely. Yeah it eats tires like no tomorrow, but as long as it's not a commuter car its OK.

Nothing says you're stuck with stock.

The Pontiac Montana/Chevy venture are not on a truck frame, they are unibody, the Astro/Safari were based on the S10 frame and the full size van is built on the 1500 truck frame.
I made the mistake of buying a Chrysler AWD minivan, I guess it was a "worldly" vehicle, the AWD system was AUDI and half of the rest of it was Mitsubishi. Nothing but problems, and even the full size SUV's beat it in gas milage. I learned my lesson, never again will i do that, give me rear wheel drive and a frame to start with so it will last more than 100k miles.

Yea, I didn't explain that real well, was basically trying to compare having 4x4 to having a PSK or BOB or other survival gear, the kind of stuff you hope to not need but better to have it and not need it that to need it an not have it. It takes a bit less work when you have 4x4 and low range.
Years ago I didn't know what a PSK or BOB and never thought about having gear with me, now I don't leave home without my PSK or drive a vehicle without 4x4.

"All the scenarios so far have not demonstrated the superiority of a 4x4 in a bug out situation."

I am assuming that in case of an emergency our road crews are not going to be running the snowplows. Therefore, around here whoever doesn't have 4WD and chains ain't goin' nowhere. 2WD will be sufficient if the disaster is kind enough to strike in the summer though. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

My bugout vehicle is a full size 4WD Dodge pickup with shell and chains, pulling a 19' trailer. My backups are Yamaha 4WD ATV's.

Dessertrat1,

The Starcraft 11 RT is very nice! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think that I like the margin of error. Planning is important, but it's the unknown that makes me think a 4x4 is superior. I've seen "maintained" roads that had me wondering if my front wheel drive was going to be able to get over the humps... <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I can think of many situations where superiority might play a part:
1) Traffic (go around on the little used drainage ditch or median!)
2) washout/flood - might get you through it with increased lift, etc.
3) snowdrifts, deep snow
4) mud/rock slide/earthquake damage
5) driving over obstacles that mean either safety on the other side or burning your fuel to find an alternate route (if you can even get turned around)

I'm sure there are plenty more and it's the ones I can't think of that worry me. I'm just saying that in an emergency, it's assuming a lot that any given road will be accessible and that redundant routes aren't all blocked.

When I was a working stiff, the Bell System supplied us engineers with nice new front wheel drive cars to do our field work. They were fast, reliable, and fairly economical, but useless in certain situations. On steep loose gravel roads or driveways, they had no traction. All the weight went to the back wheels and the front wheels would slip so bad you could not go forward. On one occasion, I was approaching a blind curve from a steep driveway on to a major highway that carried a large number of double fuel tankers. Every time I slowed down to see if traffic was coming, I could proceed no further. I had to back completely down the driveway. On the fourth attempt, I went up backwards and backed on to the highway. I do not want to repeat that again! During the winter, if the roads were slick and the grade was steep, the only way up hill, even with chains, was in reverse.

I have seen many two wheel drive pickups with large travel trailers pull on to grass covered camp grounds. When they attempted to leave, the damp grass caused one of their wheels to spin and they went no where. A four wheel drive truck even with out a limited slip differential, easily pulls both the two wheel drive truck with it’s trailer out of trouble.

I have absolutely solved the problem of BOV's...I'm building a Landmaster in a slightly smaller scale.
http://www.snowcrest.net/fox/landmaster/