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#53623 - 11/10/05 10:18 PM Another Senseless Tragedy
xbanker Offline

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 484
Loc: Anthem, AZ USA
A friend, who used to live in Billings, sent me link to story in Helena Independent Record newspaper.

Excerpts, in case link disappears: "...went missing around dusk Sunday in rugged country...[victim] and a hunting friend apparently separated in the early evening on Sunday...[victim] found unconscious but alive around 11 p.m. Monday in a remote area but died of hypothermia just after 5 a.m. Tuesday...Search and rescue officials said it didn’t appear that [victim] was equipped to spend a cold night in the backcountry."

It's quite likely that a $15 ferro rod and a $4 space blanket would've made the difference.
"Things that have never happened before happen all the time." — Scott Sagan, The Limits of Safety

#53624 - 11/11/05 03:49 PM Re: Another Senseless Tragedy
norad45 Offline

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
Or even a .99 cent mini-Bic and a garbage bag. Or maybe just a clear head.

Very sad indeed.


#53625 - 11/11/05 06:48 PM Re: Another Senseless Tragedy
groo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 740
Loc: Florida
Must be my day for Heinlein quotes:

Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation.
Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only
universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal and execution
is carried out automatically and without pity.

-- Lazarus Long (Robert Heinlein, "Time Enough for Love")

#53626 - 11/11/05 07:07 PM Re: Another Senseless Tragedy
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Yes. A bit of planning goes a long way.

We were just rememering the armistice day blizzard here in Minnesota. Many years ago a storm blew in and the temps dropped 50 degrees in a few hours, turning a nice fall day into a blizzard with 16" of snow. 37 hunters died.

A bit of education, planning and equipment could go a long way.

Teacher RO

#53627 - 11/11/05 08:56 PM Re: Another Senseless Tragedy
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1174
Loc: Channeled Scablands
My dad told me Montana holds the record for the greatest temperature change
in both a 1 hour and 24 hour period.

#53628 - 11/14/05 10:47 AM Re: Another Senseless Tragedy
KG2V Offline


Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
It's kinda funny - I hunt, oh, maybe 500 yds from the nearest road, in an area bounded on all sides by road - where on a nice day, you can hump to the other side in, oh, an hour or so. I've gotten turned around in there - not badly, but came out 1/4 mile from where I wanted to - and that was in nice weather

And folks wonder why I have food, water, a whistle, a compass, and firemaking gear with me (I know if I walk due south, I hit the road I want - no matter what, so...)


Dad, who taught me this stuff, has gotten to the point that IF he goes in the woods this year, it'll be in sight of the house. Bah, old age sucks
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

#53629 - 11/14/05 02:34 PM Re: Another Senseless Tragedy
Ors Offline
Namu (Giant Tree)

Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Florida, USA
So it sounds to me like the rescue workers didn't have any firemaking kit either. "They tried to keep him warm with blankets and spare clothes" Without more information it's hard to tell, because maybe he was too far gone by that point, but maybe a fire at that point could have been enough to save him. If the emergency workers weren't equipped either... <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

The responsibility lies with the individual I know. Our attitude in the States has become "It could never happen to me" and I used to be just like that. Sometimes I just want to shake my head and sometimes it makes me really angry.

I drive an hour to work, through rural country. My car sits most of the weekend, and I haven't gotten into the habit of checking the gas level before the new week starts. I was late today and got concerned about the fact that I had just over half a tank of gas, and would have just over a quarter of a tank by the time I got home tonight. A few months ago, I wouldn't have thought that way. I would have thought that I had enough gas for two days, easy. It's about the mindset...all about the mindset.

Prepare for the worst and with luck, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Maybe something bad like that will never happen to me. But if it does, I'll sure be glad I took the time and mind to be prepared as best I can.
Memento mori
Vulnerant omnes, ultima necat (They all wound, the last kills)

#53630 - 11/14/05 03:00 PM Re: Another Senseless Tragedy

They tried to keep him warm with blankets and spare clothes... but maybe a fire at that point could have been enough to save him
With hypothermia the body draws the blood in to keep the vital organs going at the sacrifice of the arms and legs. If you heat someone up to quick by using a fire, the blood can rush out from the core and kill them faster. You have to heat them slowly and sometimes getting inside a blanket with them is the best way. Others here with more medical knowledge can explain this better than me and fill in some of the gaps.

#53631 - 11/14/05 05:29 PM Re: Another Senseless Tragedy
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2199
Loc: NE Wisconsin

Question: If you come out at a point that is unexpected, how do you know where you are?

Do you know the area enough to know your location?
Do you carry a map that has sufficient points of reference that you can spot your location relatively quickly?
Do you carry a GPS?

I'm a big fan of using GPS to determine your current location. If you've pre-entered the location of your car/camp as a waypoint on the GPS, then the GPS can give you a bearing to follow your way there. OR, you can convert your current location's coordinate to the map, and then get the bearing from the map.

Many locations just don't have sufficient points of reference to determine one's location even on a very good topo map in clear weather. If you don't know where you are, a compass is often of little use unless you can "box" yourself in to known landmarks (for example, you may know that if you walk east you'll hit a river).

Many people would find their way back pretty quickly with just a basic GPS, a saved waypoint, and a moderately cheap compass.

This also brings out the importance being able to provide good shelter. While I find much of the other survival gear to be pretty easy to accumulate, finding good compact shelter gear continues to be a challenge for me.

#53632 - 11/15/05 02:56 AM Re: Another Senseless Tragedy
11BINF Offline

Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 115
Loc: phx. az. u.s.a
it must be a mindset ...i just finished a mulie hunt in north east AZ. ..my pals who have been hunting for years carried very little in the way of survival kit...i have a back ground in the army INFANTRY and took a survival tin ,headlamp ,h2o,survival pouch also empty ruck for snivel gear coming off after a good walk...even after last years hunt i GAVE them items of kit and still they will not carry it ...they all have the" it won't happen to me" mindset because it has not happened in the past and they won't get lost and or have to spend a night out ....this last hunt one of our party did'nt follow the plan and route and we thougth he was lost..came 4pm came 6pm no hunter at the pick up point given ...at that point we went into OH'CRAP mode and were going to get the S.A.R teams envoled...we drove the roads again and found the guy on a road he was NOT told to be on....long story short STICK TO PLANS AND ALWAYS CARRY YOUR KIT.. even if your a toughguy hunting all your life...news papers are full of real hunters dead in the woods because they did'nt carry kit...vince g 11b inf.....

Edited by 11BINF (11/15/05 03:03 AM)

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