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#48747 - 09/13/05 05:57 AM Re: Dealing with big dogs (? for Biggzie)
xbanker Offline

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 484
Loc: Anthem, AZ USA
...take my leatherman wave from my belt because its against the law...

Since I consider a Leatherman fairly benign, I'm curious. What can you carry? And how much of a "pass" will the work-related reasoning get you (in terms of what would otherwise be illegal to carry)?
"Things that have never happened before happen all the time." Scott Sagan, The Limits of Safety

#48748 - 09/13/05 10:57 AM Re: Dealing with big dogs
pteron Offline

Registered: 10/01/01
Posts: 59
Loc: UK
Hi GoatRider,

Maybe the best thing to do would have been to just let your dog go

I'm cetainly of that opinion now. I waited just a little too long to let go.

#48749 - 09/13/05 11:01 AM Re: Dealing with big dogs
pteron Offline

Registered: 10/01/01
Posts: 59
Loc: UK

I think it's great that he wants to figure out how to deal with this, without saying the dog should be put down, etc.

my pont exactly. The other dog was not attempting to bite me, he was attempting to dominate my dog and I got in the way. I wouldn't want him destroyed for obeying his testosterone.

I did, however, give the other owner a few choice words about controlling his dog.

#48750 - 09/13/05 11:10 AM Re: Dealing with big dogs
pteron Offline

Registered: 10/01/01
Posts: 59
Loc: UK
Thanks everyone for the comments and ideas.

I will seriously consider using a walking stick in future. I don't believe pepper spray is legal here but I shall investigate further. I usually have a folder on me, but I can't see how it would have been of any use in this situation.

In hindsight, I should definitely have let go of my dog before the other dog lunged, he is perfectly able to take care of himself, was older and therefore had a psychological advantage and has a very thick coat to protect him.

I'm still shocked at how little time I had to let go and at how painless the initial bite was. The first I knew about it was when the blood started dripping. I shall certainly be more proactive in future situations.


#48751 - 09/13/05 11:32 AM Re: Dealing with big dogs
KG2V Offline


Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
I must admit to having gotten lucky - only once was I threatend by a dog , and I knew this agressive dog lived in the area, so I was somewhat prepared. I was walking home from the bus from my then job in construction - I draped my tool belt over my left arm (weak side) and held that in front of me as a guard, pulled the 20 oz ball peen from the loop, put my back towards a car, and was ready to defend when the owner came up and yelled at ME for threating HIS dog. I told the owner that was lucky I had not killed the mutt

I was always told that in the worst case IF you can grab the dogs REAR legs, you grab them and start swinging - and bash the dogs head against nearest tree/lightpost/car/etc - and DON'T stop till the brains are running out of the open skull

I love dogs, and in general, dogs love me (only met one dog that didn't like me - never figured that dog out) - but if one attacks me/mine - I WILL defend myself
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

#48752 - 09/13/05 12:53 PM Re: Dealing with big dogs (? for Biggzie)
MartinFocazio Offline


Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2155
Loc: Bucks County PA
As fas as I know, anything with a locking blade is an "offensive weapon" in Australia and in England.

Of course, there's no crime at all in either of those places, so you see how well that and similar laws have worked.

#48753 - 09/13/05 01:40 PM Re: Dealing with big dogs
frenchy Offline

Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 1320
Loc: France
I won't say I love dogs, I'm more a cat person.
But I don't hate them either (well... except maybe those little yapping beasts.... who - maybe - think they are big dogs ... who knows... <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> ?).

When I was much younger, I acted as mailman (summer's job). On my daily tour, there were many houses with dogs.
One of those, a german shepard, didn't act very friendly from the beginning. each day, it became worse, upgrading from barking to growling, each day coming nearer and more hostile. Hopefully, its owner was present and she kept it at bay, always saying "don't worry, my dog is not dangerous..."..
One day, she didn't respond my ringing right away, but the dog did. And it just run to me. I just had time to put my big leather satchel in front of me... and the poor satchel got bitten, instead of my arm. From that day on, that woman got her mail delivered on the post of her fence, no longer at her door.
At another house, there was another big dog who always barked furiously each time it saw me approching in the street. Only during the last days of my job, did I found it was in fact happy to see me, and just wanted to be stroked. We had a few good moments after that, it was really a nice doggy !

An aunt of mine love animals and always had pet dogs.
Among others , she once had a german shepard, very friendly, used to play with her young kid (I don't exactly rememeber, he must have been somewhere between 5 and 10 yo - not the dog; my nephew...). But one day, as both the dog and my nephew were alone playing behind the house, the dog bit him at the face, ripping off a good piece of cheek. I guess the kid did make something so the dog reacted, but I don't know what.

IMO the fact is dogs ARE UNPREDICTABLE... even for those who think they know them.

Here in France, as far as I know, dogs are to be under control of their owners and should not be allowed to roam freely in the streets (except if the municipality edited a special regulation saying the opposite).
Now, what exactly means "to be under control", that's more vague.. At first, I thought it meant they have to be on leash, but it's not written so in the laws/regulations. I guess the owner must be able to restrain his dog, be it on leash or not...
Most of the time, when there is an accident, it's the owner's fault : not enough attention given to what his dog is doing (he is not "controlling" his dog), bad education - both the owner and the dog ....

When I see big dogs running (almost) freely, a long way from being under control from a distant, inattentive master, I just think about gun related safety rules at the range :
it's not enough that you know your gun is empty and thus not dangerous, you won't let it laying around or point it in any direction ; you have to "control" it, i.e. handle it correctly without pointing it to people, plus, you have to clearly show others it is safe (empty opened cylinder, slide open, magazine removed and so on...).

I think a similar set of safety rules should exist for dog owners. Letting a big dog running barking to other people in the street is the same as waving a pistol, apparently ready to fire. I feel threatened and even with a well meaning, playfull dog, my attitude can then convoy a threat and the dog's attitude can in turn change to a really menacing one....
Then I will get hurt, the dog will get hurt, and that *$?%** owner is the only guilty one.

I would be curious to have statistics from insurance companies, on how many people are accidentaly injured by firearms and how many are dogs' victims...

ooopsss... may be I should have put some 'rant on/off' tags.... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

#48754 - 09/13/05 05:11 PM Re: Dealing with big dogs
xbanker Offline

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 484
Loc: Anthem, AZ USA
Just a few of the interesting dog bite-related statistics from dogexpert.com :

* There are approximately 4.5 million reported dog bites annually in the United States (nearly 2% of the American population).
* According to the American Medical Association, dog bites are the second leading cause of childhood injury, surpassing playground accidents.
* Dog bites to people of the male gender are approximately two times greater than the incidence involving females.
* Dogs that are licensed with an identifiable owner are implicated in the vast majority of dog bites (compared with strays).
* The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention document that a chained dog is 2.8 times more likely to bite than an unchained dog.
* Canines not spayed or neutered are three times more likely to bite than sterilized ones.
* The majority of dog bites to adult humans are inflicted to the lower extremities followed by bites to the upper extremities including the head, face and neck. For children, 77% of dog bite injuries are to facial areas.
* According to the Insurance Information Institute, dog bites accounted for about one-quarter of all claims on homeowner's insurance
* From 1979 to 1998, at least 25 breeds of dogs have been involved in bite related deaths. Pit Bulls and Rottweilers were involved in more than 50 percent of these incidences.

My last three homes (covering 20 years), my HO insurance company (same one) has always asked at issuance: Own dogs? How many? What breed? Bite history?
"Things that have never happened before happen all the time." Scott Sagan, The Limits of Safety

#48755 - 09/13/05 05:27 PM Re: Dealing with big dogs
Dreadnought Offline

Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 31
Loc: Pennsylvania
"The question that is still dominating my thoughts is: what could I have done to prevent it from happening, preferably without losing my dog?"

Kel-tec P32 several shots (center mass).

Regards to all,

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are" : Theodore Roosevelt c.1899

#48756 - 09/13/05 05:38 PM Re: Dealing with big dogs
lazermonkey Offline

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 318
Loc: Monterey CA
Animals can be unpredictable just like people. My dog, before it past away, was well trained and friendly toward everyone. All my neighbors loved him and wished they could have a dog just like him. One day out of the blue, he got very aggressive, without provocation, toward not a stranger but my own father. My dad let him know who was boss and sent him off whimpering and peeing on himself. Moral of the story is always error in the favor of caution/safety when it comes to dogs or any animal.
P.S. I love dogs, had them all my life, and plan to have many large and small dogs in the future.
Hmmm... I think it is time for a bigger hammer.

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