The point I am trying to make is that. 99% of the population of the USA has not been trained in self defense. IMHO women as well as most men would pull the trigger on pepper spray immediately and without hesitation and that in it’s self could save a life. People with morals would probably hesitate in pulling the trigger “just to make sure”. If you have to make sure….I would rather shoot first with pepper spray and run to avoid the potential consequences. Mind you this was originally started based on a potential NOLA situation. Keeping it in that context I would use pepper spray first. If the country is devastated and you corner me, my sister or most likely anyone I really believe would shoot first and ask questions later.

To the point: Most people will have no hesitation using pepper spray in an NOLA situation. No hesitation means a much better chance of getting away. In the event you can’t get away than as I said Shoot!!!

Please see my previous post to see my personal feelings on the warning shot. I learned a lot from that post and have given it deep consideration and yes I would handle the situation differently. Was the warning shot the equivalent of pepper spray?

On Equipped use the Search button for “did I faux pas” for my discharging a fire arm at people situation.

Cameron

> it's not the rational part of your brain that going to stop you from pulling the trigger. It's a deeper
> part more "primitive" part of the brain that stops you from killing another person.

There was a C4 documentary about this: The Truth About Killing which makes interesting reading. However, I gather the studies are controversial. See for example, S.L.A. Marshall and the Ratio of Fire.

I doubt you can really tell in advance how someone would react. The idea that people can be divided into sheep, wolves and sheepdogs, in advance, is probably simplistic, and I suspect that the same person might act as sheep on one occasion and sheep dog on another (and wolf on yet another). It partly depends on the situation and on what other people are doing.

S.L.A. Marshall's study on soldiers' ability to fire on the enemy is from WWII and had been widely quoted. The "study", however was found to to be fraudulant and is now dismissed.
More recent studies from Nam indicate a large majority of troops in combat used their weapons. Many only did the "spray and pray" routine, but at least rounds went down range.
Information from the Gulf and Iraq wars indicated a larger percentage of troops are effective with their individual weapons.

A L.E.O. friend of mine who has been engaged in several shoot-outs (and killed several people) advised me, over a couple beers, that no matter how much training you have, or what you think is your mindset, you're not going to know until it happens to you. And then, when it happens, you're not going to know what you're going to do the next time.

I've carried for twenty years, and keep a gun on the bedstand every night, but I still wonder what I'll do if it ever comes down to it.

A very very good gunsmith here, Greg Ferriss, had his shop in a nasty part of town. He shot and killied in two seperate incidents in robbery attempts. He moved. Greg shoots for center of mass.

I always found it incredibly stupid that they decided to try rob the best pistol-smith in town.

KenK,

Just wanted to elaborate a little on your point.

<< SOAP BOX MODE ON >>

I can understand your concern, and for those who choose to own firearms and not exercise due diligence with them with their families, I would say your advice may be the most relevent.

In my opinion, anyone who is going to own a firearm ought to take the time to make sure the whole family knows what they are about, how to use them, and get them intently involved in their upkeep and maintenance. I am not advocating that you hand your magnum over to your toddler and try and show him what it is all about. Rather, take the lad out to the range with you, have him witness you shooting the thing, put it where he can't get at it until he is old enough to get into just about anything in the house. Make him clean the thing. When he is big enough to hold onto it, have him shoot the thing (assisted if need be). As he gets older, make him use the thing regularly, even if just for target practice, cleaning it after every session.

We've had firearms in our society since it first began. 9 year old kids were required to go out and fetch dinner with them. They were kept loaded and ready to use by the front door or over the fireplace mantle, in easy access. Heck, folks were even expected to bring them to Sunday service every week.

When I was 5 years old, I was fascinated with Grandad's guns. One day he took me with him for target practice. He let me shoot his big 20 gauge shotgun. It hurt, both my shoulder and my ears. Afterwards he showed me how to clean it up, and we repeated this several times that summer. At the end of that time, I was no longer fascinated with them, and had quit asking to go shooting because it took too long to clean the guns up when we got back home before we could eat dinner. That was how I was raised. That is quite similar to how I raised my girls. I kept loaded guns in the house, not necessarily in plain view, but the girls always knew where at least a couple were kept easily accessible. They never had the gumption to do anything with them, and they never let any friends or family mess with them. They grew up to be good shooters and are becoming hunter education instructors for the state when they reach eligible age. My oldest is pursuing a career in law enforcement, my youngest intends to become an attorney (only if she gets those grades of hers up more).

That's just me. From a survival perspective, I can't see the point of owning a self defense firearm that I am not going to keep loaded. I also don't abide having a useful tool that my children are prohibited from using only because I haven't taken the time to properly train them on it. My hunting rifles and such need not be loaded and accessible. But by God, my pistols better be handy and ready to go, otherwise what's the point of even having one? If five generations have been able to do it, I reckon I shouldn't shirk the responsibility myself.

For the unprepared, I think your soapbox statement is absolutely on the money.

It would be interesting to see the expression on the face of an invader holding me unarmed at knife/gunpoint just after one of my daughters plugged him with my 45. Not something I would ever look forward to, but am prepared for.

FWIW, I too had a friend in jr high (we shared a locker together), who did the same. It was a tough day having to clean all his stuff out of the locker. The worst was knowing that what he'd done I could've prevented if I had been there that day with him. I always supervised my kids with all gun handling until they were old enough I could trust them with it(when they were old enough to drive, theywere old enough to handle other equally dangerous tools). My friend was not old enough, and should not have been allowed independent manipulation with any firearm.

<< SOAP BOX MODE OFF >>

Also, the statement that using pepper spray may avoid the loss of life; logically, the use of pepper spray may evoke an otherwise avoidable lethal attack in retribution. Actively defending against an attack can escalate the confrontation as often as diffuse it, regardless of the non-lethal methods used.

Well, I don't have a little sister, but I do have a wife that doesn't particularly like guns a lot, but does understand the need.

I didn't post this here because of the increased sensitivity here on ETS in recent months about guns and the lets be more friendly to all the outsiders that come along. A good policy I believe, but things can get out of hand in both directions. Anyway, I digress.

My wife is currently in her 3rd year of law school and in the spring there was a contest sponsored by the second amendment society. She decided to enter and ended up winning the contest. The paper discusses why going against the right to carry is a violation of gender equality.

I got her permission to post the paper on line after receiving a lot of requests to read it.

It is about 8 pages total. Link as follows if you are interested.

http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3665

On that forum I go by Vinosaur (nickname from my Navy days). Only thing left out are the footnotes.

Excellent article/paper.

I well give that link to a few closed minds with big mouths that I know.

I am a little sister to a big sister, as well as a big sister to a little brother.

I believe that women are just as likely and capable to pull a trigger without hesitation as men. I think that most of them just don't know what they'd do, and would rather not fathom it, until it happens to them.

Sitting comfortably in my home, with no danger in sight, even I worry about the moral consequences if I shot and killed someone. But there was a time when a (presumably drunk) young male stranger tried to forcibly enter my dorm room at college, and I brandished the only weapon I had (my EDC knife) while yelling and screaming for attention after only the slightest hesitation. What caused that hesitation? It wasn't concern of the ramifications of my soul if I stabbed the guy in self defense, it was plain FEAR that this was my only time to react and was I strong and fast enough?

Looking back on it, I feel a little bad that I was so quick to maim another human being (even though I had the "Don't Mess With Me" reputation among my friends), especially since he "sobered up" real fast when he got my reaction, and I was unhurt. But during the actual situation, and others afterward, my capacity for that shame went out the window. I don't know how different I am from other women, but I believe we are all capable of a similar response.

I think that when a peacable woman can recognize that capacity in herself, and let it switch on freely when needed, the better she is at protecting herself and others.

In most cases I would have to agree with you on that point.
Especially a mother protecting her children.