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Where do you want to go on ETS?

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#47364 - 09/16/05 08:56 PM End of the world books, Re: ETS v. Long Term Su
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Both are great old friends, if slightly optimistic. I have Warday right next to them (well researched, honest, but the odds of it be a limited exchange went to zero before I was born), along with Brin's Postman (lacking research in a few places, but the principles are good; don't judge it by the movie).
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-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#47365 - 09/17/05 02:22 AM Re: ETS v. Long Term Survival
trooper0366 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 59
Loc: Missouri
Sounds like a good idea, Doug(provided your rules are followed).
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Without integrity one has nothing.

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#47366 - 09/17/05 02:52 AM Re: ETS v. Long Term Survival
Ors Offline
Namu (Giant Tree)
Addict

Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Florida, USA
My two cents: I'd love to see a practical (as another member said) LTS forum.

My family thinks I'm paranoid because I'm building EDC kits and stocking food and water, but I would like to have the peace of mind to know if something big and scary did upset the normal balance of life, at least I'd have a chance (and hopefully knowledge and skills) to get through it.

No plans to hole up in a compound or curse the government (at least not in an LTS forum)... just a real desire to regain some of humanity's long lost skills.
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Ors, MAE, MT-BC
Memento mori
Vulnerant omnes, ultima necat (They all wound, the last kills)

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#47367 - 09/17/05 04:24 AM Re: ETS v. Long Term Survival
Craig_phx Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 715
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
It was written in the 1950s. It is well written. You feel like you are watching a movie instead of struggling with someone's prose. The one thing that I think he got wrong was the water. Water is stored in large water tanks that are gravity fed. He said the water stopped when the electricity stopped. I think the water would stop when the tank runs dry. The main character has an underground well that he gets water from. I would think that would require a pump that would require electricity. Other than that it seemed very realistic. There are many good lessons.
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Thermo-regulate, hydrate and communicate.

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#47368 - 09/17/05 05:16 AM Re: ETS v. Long Term Survival
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
IIRC, the Braggs had an artisian well. Ground and water pressure apparently forces the water to the surface in those kinds of wells, no moving parts, but pressure can be funny at times. (I know someone who has one, he kabitzes about the pressure all the time.) In the book there was apparently enough for them to use it for irrigation, so running it into household plumbing should be easy enough, so long as you stick to the ground floor.

Uhm, yeah, I kinda read the cover off a copy of Alas Babylon when I was younger.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#47369 - 09/17/05 07:13 AM Re: ETS v. Long Term Survival
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
You know, it's funny. This forum resisted even talking much about LTS for quite a while. It came up once in a long while, but never really got too serious interest.

Along with other indicators, I find it interesting that so much publicity/shop talk/community sink is focusing more and more on the impending disaster(s) waiting just around the corner for us all.

Why?

It just seems that the doom and gloom factor is accelerating beyond rational parameters. Even accounting for my present location, things seem even more stressful and tense than Y2K did. Wierd huh? <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#47370 - 09/17/05 09:32 PM Re: ETS v. Long Term Survival
YBZ Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/10/03
Posts: 21
Loc: Canada
I would also be interested in an LTS forum

(However, I disagree with only allowing people in who have so many posts)

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#47371 - 09/18/05 12:31 AM Re: ETS v. Long Term Survival
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
I would be very interested in hearing exactly what the members of this forum consider to be LTS as compared to MTS and STS. It sounds as though we are getting criticized for focusing on short term scenarios. But I don't recall LTS threads getting shot down here--unless they got too political or too wacky. I don't believe that LTS threads are necessarily too right or PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. by nature. If there is enough interest then somebody ought to start a discussion. If somebody starts Bush-bashing or Hillary-hammering then Chris can--and will-- shut it down. Go ahead and discuss the best way to store wheat or desalinate water.

Again, what does everybody consider LTS? I'll get the ball rolling: I consider LTS anything greater than 90 days.

Regards, Vince

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#47372 - 09/18/05 03:21 AM Re: ETS v. Long Term Survival
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think some people are confusing "Long Term Survival" with what I guess should be called "Epochal Adaptation."

If what happened in New Orleans could be compared to Pompeii, it should be remembered that the Roman Empire continued to exist after Pompeii for almost four centuries. People who survived Pompeii endured Long Term Survival. Those who endured the fall of the Roman Empire Adapted to a new Epoch.

Long Term Survival almost certainly involves a dialogue about ethics, but probably not ideology. Epochal Adaptation invariably compels ideological discussions and conflicts.

I think that's where the difference lies, and time is often not a factor. It's sort of like pornography: you know it when you see it. Sort of like the difference between evacuation and migration.

I don't see the need for a separate forum, so long as LTS issues (as nebulously defined above) are discussed in a functional and ethical context. Anything else should be left to the Hippie Homesteaders and Bunker Bubbas.

My two cents, after a long absence from posting.

G

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#47373 - 09/18/05 03:54 AM Re: ETS v. Long Term Survival
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Well, before the server ate my old profile and all the posts from it, I did.... *growls menacing at server*

Immediate term: <24 hours, PSK and EDC country
Short term: 24-120 hours, BOB
Medium Term: 5-30 days, BOB gets you out of the area or you are bugging in for the duration
Long Term: 30-365 days, you should be moving
TEOTWAWKI: 366+ days, it isn't ever going to be the same again (a world war, a really good plague, comet strike, etc)

_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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