The Guardian Self Defense Key Chain

Notice what it says in black and white on the page: "This product is approved by the TSA for transport onboard US domestic flights."

I find that difficult to believe.

-- Craig

I think it's true, but very misleading. Sure, you can "transport" it, like I do a knife... in checked baggage. Or you can take it off your keychain (metal), stick it... somewhere... and walk through the meta detector. Or maybe what they really mean is "not explicity banned by the TSA". :-)

But yeah, I find it hard to believe that it'll get by a security person if they notice it. The shape is too odd to be explained away as something else. It's clearly a weapon (even if not immediately recognized as such) and therefore is probably forbidden anyway, even if the material (plastic) isn't a problem.

I hate flying, post 9-11. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Edit: Hey, Airline people. I want a reliable, secure way to check items which can't be carryed on board. Something that's _not_ processed through the normal checked baggage system. I give you my knife, you give me a reciept, I get my knife when I step off the plane. Everything could go tagged into one box which is retrieved by the flight attendant. I will PAY you for this service.

(Yeah, FedEx works, but it's tough to coordinate, and a pain for short trips.)

"Misleading" is the kindest thing that one could say about it. Very nearly deceitful, it is.

In its defense, it doesn't look like a weapon to me at all. It looks like a sex toy conceived (pun intended) during an acid trip.

OR like a really funky backscratcher.

By the way, I haven't flown since 9/11, so kudos to those of you who do. I am SLOWLY working up the nerve to do, however. My Better Half wants to travel.

-- Craig

It looks like it's supposed to function in the same manner as a kubotan, which is specifically banned. I do not believe that this would be an approved item except in checked baggage. That misleading wording is likely to land you a fine and future close scrutiny from the ever popular TSA.
Ed

Groo - back in '97, I flew on several Peruvian airlines, and was peeved that they wouldn't allow a Swiss Army knife in the cabin. I thought it was kind of silly, because I'd flown to Peru from the U.S. with it in my pocket. But what they would do was cabin check it ... almost exactly as you described it. I got a claim tag, and my Swiss Army knife flew stored in the cockpit with the crew.
Apparently, that's how police and military are able to fly with a gun - it's claimchecked and flown in the cabin. Well, anyway, it was in '97. No idea what they're doing now.
Dave

Interesting. Wish they'd do that here. Or take more responsibility for the theft occuring in the checked baggage area.

It has been approved by the TSA. If something does happen and it is taken by a TSA employee. We will give you a new keychain free of charge.

However, this has not happened in over 10 years that I am aware of teaching and training using the Guardain as a tool.
Devin <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

*scratching my head"

Prior to the fall of 2001, there was TSA and I flew with things much more effective than this on my person, without question or hassle from the officers hiered by the airports. Spring of 2001, I flew with a full-size multitool on my belt, a twiny swiss aremy knife of my key ring, a lockback knife in my pocket, and a lighter in my pocket.

So.... 2005, minus 2001, ingnoring a few months for simplicity, gives us four years. Less than four years. That is more than six years less than "over ten years".

Excuse me, but your errors are showing.

No offense, but I'd rather not have to get so close to someone that I need to use something like this. Maybe it works well, but it reminds me of a bottle opener.

As far as having it on the airplane, I'd rather whoop on a terrorist with the drink cart. Anyone ever sit in the aisle seat and have the stewardess smash into your elbow? Now that hurts! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Since 9/11 I haven't taken a single flight for personal travel, only for work. I think a lot of other people have had the same idea, because there seem to be new hotels and motels popping up everywhere for the road-weary travelers.

If you doubt- then that is fine- do not buy.

Bottomline If we were not telling the truth we would have been shut down by now by TSA. We also stand by the Money Back Guarantee.
Devin

I didn't say I wouldn't buy, but I am skeptical.



Does the TSA have the authority to shut down web sites or to order vendors to cease selling products? <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

-- Craig

Would you mind validating that? If you could point out the TSA web page where they say you may carry this particular item, this discussion would be rendered moot.

-- Craig

Hey, I'm all for using the drinks cart. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now don't you two go starting something or next thing you know they'll be banning beverage service and pretzel sticks - you could put an eye out ya know <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As The Three Stooges would say, The fun and games don't start until you put someone's eye out!

"I can't see, I can't see!" exclaims Curly or Larry.

"Whatsa matter?" says Moe.

"I got my eyes closed," replies Curly or Larry.

Cue sound of slap (delivered by Moe -- who else?).

That killed me as a kid. Got me every damned time.

The truth: It STILL gets me every time.

-- Craig

They could and would issue cease and desist order. If we were misrespertenting them.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Unlike many people on this list who say that they have "not flown since September 11th" I have managed to attain "Plutonium" status in my frequent flyer program since 9/11. To say I spend lots of time in the air would be an understatement. I know pilots who fly less.

The TSA publishes a really nice list of the things that are "permitted", and this list is readily available at:
http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1012.xml

Also on that page is the following statement:

"Prohibited items are weapons, explosives, incendiaries, and include items that are seemingly harmless but may be used as weapons - the so-called "dual use" items. You may not bring these items to security checkpoints without authorization."

The operative words are "seemingly harmless" and the fact is that ANYTHING - a CD, a laptop, ANYTHING is a "dual use" item if the TSA decides it is.

On pages 3-4 of the official list, as updated 16 may 2005, is a section that discusses "Self Defense" items, all of which are not permitted.

Thus, while the device in question may not be RECOGNIZED as a self defense weapon by name, it is most clearly NOT on on the "Permitted" list, and, per the "dual use" option, all that is not permitted is potentially prohibited.

Thus far the only "TSA" approval that exists is for locks with an override key that the TSA has. While the company making the device in question will replace it if confiscated, I wonder if they will also accept liability for any legal costs that come from an arrest as a result of the claims made that the "TSA approved" this device. Certainly one with a good lawyer could make this case and win it.

You have brought up vaild points.

Air Travel - Prohibited Items also state's

TSA has given us confirmation that our keychain is not a prohibited item on-board US domestic flights. If someone got into trouble an they called us we would turn over all documentaion to show the above is true. This information would secure the immediate release of our customer.

Our goal in this keychain was to give good people a way to defend themselves against bad people, flying is a small part.

Devin

However, the TSA's website, last time I looked, had no listen exceptions. I rpeat the request of others: please provide proof of the TSA's approval. My query to the TSA is waiting reply.

And please done't point at the TSA logo on your website. No offense, but an image isn't evidence..

At the risk of sounding a more somber note, didn't the passengers of Flight 93 use a drink cart to help batter down the cockpit door?

As far as this keychain "weapon" is concerned. it seems to me a more effective weapon could be improvised on board--especially if the passengers and crew were cooperating.

Wow---what a novel idea.... maybe it takes a true life or death struggle to get that to happen <img src="/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Regards, Vince

On an even more somber note, they didn't realize how coldly efficient the terrorists were.

Take over plane. Kill pilots. Crash plane into target. If passengers rebel in an organized manner, crash plane anywhere.

The passengers and crew were out-organized by maniacs who had carefully planned a suicide hijacking for years.

What the TSA is saying is, "As far as you are concerned, we ARE God. Get used to it."

Imagine having the power to declare ANYTHING a weapon and to confiscate it AT WILL.

Wow. They have more power than the police do. Big Brother is here.

If this is true, kindly post a scan of the TSA letter to this effect - becuase if it's not in writing, it's hope, not policy.

If you can produce a verifiable policy document to proove your assertion of TSA specifically allowing this self-defense device on plane, I will make a public apology to you.

In the meanwhile, I have contacted the TSA myself with a printout of pages with your device seeking a statement to the same effect as your claim.

I contacted (By mail) Chad Wolf, Assistant Administrator
Office of Transportation Security Policy
TSA HQ: TSA-9
601 South 12th Street
Arlington, VA 22202-4220

I hope that he can clarify this matter.

I look forward to his comments and review. If Chad needs any further details I would be happy to provide it to him.

As I stated before the goal of this keychain to provide a way for people to protect themselves and their loved ones. The ability to fly with the keychain was only one advantage of many.
Devin

In other words, you have no idea what the TSA would do about your product, and don't have anything to back up your claims.

Excuse me while I try not to laugh.

There is a universe of diffence between being on the OK list and not being on the bad list.

*sniffs the air suspiciously* Yep, thought so - it smells like brown sticky stuff to me.

TSA and logic. Two items that don't belong in the same sentance.

Has anyone else noticed that the TSA logo and all mentions of the TSA have been removed from the website?

I guess the TSA heard about it and lowered the boom on them.