I greatly appreciate all the work that has been put into this site and the valuable input from so many. My wife may not, yet, as all she has seen are receipts for folder knife, flashlights, leatherman and many miscellaneous items (which now includes a Fox mini 40 for us and our two young boys). I will say, that she likes the UK 2L, great light and recommendation. I would like to get a pepper spray to have for my EDC and my wife. I am more interested in the Urban Survival issues/items, as I'm a desk jockey working 9 miles from home and more likely faced with that (BTW thanks to someone who posted the recommendation to carry a crow bar in your auto- great recommendation and addition) and I have read through the pepper spray comments that Doug has put up. <br>The question I have is: What size? I have settled on Sabre brand, with a stream for my EDC, but they come from .5oz to 5oz. Looking for something to defend from one or two agressors, and most of the descriptions say "15 one second bursts" no matter what the size is. Thanks for your input.

Well, the first thing to remember about pepper or any other spray is it's limitations. The propellent goes stale. Don't spray it into the wind, or even across the wind. And if it's raining out, your range goes to hell. Streams are a little better than sprays, but....<br><br>I don't know anything about Saber, actually. The problem I see with a lot of these products, though, is that they sell it by the percentage of the product that is OC. That's OK, but not all pepper juice is created equal- you also need to talk about what are called Schoefeld Heat Units. SHUs hare how hot it feels, but don't ask me how you measure it, but you want a higher number. I know ShomerTec is supposed to have a website up, and thier catalog had (as of three, four years ago) a good description of SHUs that I don't remember much of. :)<br><br>In my experince, the best product is somehting called Pepperfoam. Think sillystring impregnated with OC, and it is nastier than it sounds. (Guess which idiot gets talked into be the test/demostration dummy for womens' defense courses.) Better range, and stands up better in the wind, and clings to everything, so the goblin in question gets to enjoy his reward for a hard night's work longer.<br><br>No matter what one you go with, don't listen to that x number of one second bursts bit. Aim for the face and hose the sucker. Empty the can, but don't let up until the target is down. Also, the .5oz units are too small to hold much of a pressure charge. The 2.5oz sizes are the smallest I'd even thing about trusting if there are no other alternatives, and the 5 ounce units are much better still. They also pack enough juice to have some chance of being used on more than one target.<br><br>Also, get a training unit if you can, so you can learn the controls. If they don't make one, find someplace that can be decontaminated easily (use a garden hose) and use a live one to learn how to use the silly thing. The middle of an anti-social event is NOT the place to have to stop to read directions.

My wife and I both carry ASP's "Key Defender" on our keychain. It is very small yet seems to have enough "heat" (2 mil. SHU and 10%Capsicum) And it lists the exp. date on the refillable cartridge.<br><br> feel comfotbale with it. It is easily carried with little bulk. I have found it hard to find in stores but I believe it to be the best around.

My "2 cents" on pepper spray from first hand knowledge:<br>Pepper spray is better than nothing, but:<br><br>Don't be over confident, because depite what some people say, it doesn't always work or there may be a delayed response and your still going to have a fight on your hands. <br><br>The aerosol pepper spray works on the theory that it has to be a mist in the air to properly work. If it doesn't mix with the air and you just spray liquid on the subject, it doesn't kick in until it mixes with the air. You're best bet is if you can, back off and spray a mist in the direction of your attacker. <br><br>Be prepared for the possiblity that you might get hit with some of the spray or the subject may take it from you and spray you. IT HURTS LIKE HELL!!!!<br><br>Like any weapon , if you can get training, get training. If not read as much as you can about it to know it's strengths and weaknesses.<br><br>Good luck and stay safe.

It's also the most readily available unit that has training cartridges available for it, from what I've seen. <br><br>It's actually not that hard to get- Brigade Quartermasters and US Cav carry it, along with Galls and just about anyone who deals with law enforcement supplies. Just about any gun shop that isn't littered with things like fishing tackle might have it.

By all means get yourself some FOX spray- it's by far the hottest brand. After taking Andy Stanfords/James Yeagers <br>( http://www.optionsforpersonalsecurity.com/ ) Vienna class, and hearing Yeager's recommendations <br>http://www.optionsforpersonalsecuri...ger/pepper.html , I provided our animal shelter with FOX pepperfoam (better for use in closed rooms and blinds the dog temporarily). Since that time, we had NO failure to stop a dog fight with OC! According to Yeager, many inferior OC products are available. So I think, besides common sense, FOX, the hottest brand of OC spray, will do the job against both four and two legged predators.<br><br>Sincerely<br><br>Cato<br>

I think the URL you mean is http://www.optionsforpersonalsecurity.com/articles/yeager/pepper.html

I felt that something which Sgt. Mike posted over on the Outdoor Forums might be good to repeat here, so, with his permission, here is what he wrote:<br><br><br>From: sgtmike88<br><br>PepperFoam is a terrible self defense product! It was designed and developed for correctional tactical applications (by a close friend of mine when he was the Training Director for Mace Security International in Bennington, VT). IE. Violent perp/inmate barricaded in a cell - he gets sprayed with foam, there's no secondary contamination, CERT Team waits until the foam takes effect and then goes in and takes control of the perp. IE. Used in a hospital where secondary contamination must be minimized for fear of endangering innocents with predisposed medical conditions which could be aggravated. <br><br>I have personally seen incidents where once sprayed with foam, the perp quickly wiped it away from his face and threw it back at the officer. <br><br>For self defense, you need a good ballistic stream, spatter stream, or aerosol mist/fog. BodyGuard, ASP, DefTech / Federal Labs, Zarc (Capstun), Fox Labs and many others make great defensive products as described. Stay away from those with mixtures of CS or CN blended into the mix - it's just a sales gimmick. For serious defensive work you want pure hot OC. <br><br>PS ... With that maglite or baton, you have to get close enough to strike ... with a good OC ballistic stream, you could be 12' or more away, in a better defensive position to provide for further defense should it be deemed necessary. <br><br>Mike<br>

No matter what brand or size you get, remember this...the active ingredent has a tendency to settle at the bottom of the cannister, so you need to shake the thing from time to time. Before I retired from law enforcement I had the habit of shaking it ever day as I put on my uniform and equipment. If you have the time, give it a shake just before you blast someone/thing...

I'm familiar with it's traits, and it DOES need to be aimed, but that is a requirement for proper use of ANY spray-type device.<br><br>I will argue strongly against it being a poor defense choice. I personally know one cop who had his pepper fail due to wind during a firstnight celebration a few years ago, and he had to retreat to the baton. That isn't an issue with the foam.<br><br>Also, I don't see the point he seems to be making about secondary contamination- that's as relevent on the street as it is in a close-quarters senario like a mentalward or a prison. <br><br> I'd question "Sgt. Mike" about the exact details of this incident, and I'd want to talk to other people involved in the incident. There is more here than he says in that message is what my gut is telling me.