I would appreciate it if you guys (and girls) would review my current PSK for me. All questions, comments, criticisms and suggestions are welcome. The only real criteria is that we stick within the realm of what will fit in the Maxpedition M2 waistpack, therefore if anything of significant size is to be added then it would require that something of equal size be removed (since it is packed tight as it is <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />).

Basically the way this is set up (or at least my intention) is so that the contents of the Altoids tin make for a pretty good mini PSK on their own and could even be carried on its own when needed. However for normal usage (90% of the time) the Altoids tin kit is placed inside the Maxpedition M2 with the additional (larger) items listed below, such as shelter, more fire making redundancy, better knife, better cordage, etc. to make for a far more capable kit (at least IMHO).

When reviewing this kit please note that this is NOT intended to be a 72 hour/3 day kit. This is intended to be more along the lines of a 6 (or more) day kit. Please keep that in mind when reviewing so you can give the most accurate feedback.

I?m sure everyone is familiar with the basic dimensions of an Altoids tin so I won?t get in to that however, here is a link to the specs on the Maxpedition M2 waistpack if anyone needs that to help understand my space limitations.

Thanks guys (and girls). I value your opinions quite a bit and I?m sure you can help me make this kit even better.

Maxpedition M2 Waistpack

30' Black 7 Strand 500# Paracord
10' Orange 300# Nylon Rope
1 Orange Mini Bic Lighter
4 Windproof/Waterproof Matches
1 Storm Shelter Instant Pocket Tent
2 Large Oven Bags
5 Gerber Breast Milk Bags
1 Small Diamond Sharpening Rod
1 Swedish Firesteel (Handle Removed)
1 Firesteel Striker
1 Kershaw Leek 50/50 Smooth/Serrated
1 Space Pen
2 Sheets Rite in Rain Paper
1 Rescue Flash Signal Mirror
1 3.5" Jigsaw blade
1 Altoids Tin (rectangular type)
** Left room to add cell phone **

Altoids Tin

4 Windproof/Waterproof Matches
1 Match Striker
1 Ferro Rod 2.5" x 0.3"
1 Sparklite
4 Tinderquik
6 MP1 Tabs
1 Benchmite
3 Condoms
1 Firewire Bundle
1 Whistle ACR
6 Alcohol Pads
3 Gauze Pads 2" x 2"
4 Butterfly Sutures
3 Neosporin
10' Duct Tape
1 Peak LED
1 N-Cell Battery (Extra)
1 SAS Compass

I use Maxpedition equipment as well, and just love it. Curious as to why the sutures in a small kit?

Thanks
Ted Fisher

Sounds like a great kit. The only suggestions I would have are:

1) The 6 MP1 tabs are going to run out very quickly if needed. I would add a bottle of Potable Aqua tabs in the bag. These are cheap and pretty small.
2) I didn't see any mention of a small LED flashlight.
3)I would opt for the Acme Tornado whistle over the ACR whistle for the same space since it is louder (according to Doug's tests).
4) If you can't squeeze anything else in without removing something, you could reduce your cord supply. I would also include some braided nylon string in addition to or in place of some cordage. It is handy and compact.
5) I like the idea of having a pocket kit as a component of a belt kit, but I wouldn't put the pocket kit IN the belt pouch. If you can carry it seperately in your pocket all the time, it will more likely be on you if/when you need it.

I would recommend a "cane pole" fishing line kit. It has line, hook, sinker and bobber. Get em at Wal-Mart for $1.00. YMMV

Charles

Look closer <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Butterfly sutures aren't the permanent thread and needle sutures. They're pretty useful for temporary closures (although there are better products out there from what I understand)

The sutures are something that I have (unfortunately) had a lot of experience with and they work so well. Granted, duct tape works well too but the sutures are sterile. As far as why they are in the small kit, well basically it was just because they take up such a small amount of room (about as much or less space than a small paperclip) and I had the extra space and nothing else to fill it that wasnt either less useful or too big. Even a single piece of tinderquik or a single MP1 tab would take up significantly more space.

Thanks a lot. You made some great points and I'd like to take a couple minutes to respond to a few of them.

This is something that has been on my mind since first creating the kit and I was curious if someone would point it out. I'm not a believer in iodine water treatments however I think I will take your suggestion and add 6 more MP1 tabs to Maxped case and continue trying to figure a way to squeeze a couple more in to the pocket (tin) kit aswell. Water is important. Probably the second most important thing next to maintaining body temperature. Thanks for pointing that out.

I slightly modified my ACR to make it even smaller than it is out of the box. I'll check out Dougs Tornado review and if I think I can make it just as small or smaller then I'll go for it.

A good point indeed, however this is not an "on-my-body 24/7" kit. I have another much smaller set of gear that serves that purpose. This is more of "grab and go mini kit" that sits in my truck on any average day and is strapped to my belt when venturing outside the paved word, as I often (at least once a week) do.

My 25/7 on-body EDC/PSK consists of the following

Cell Phone
Wallet (ID/Cards/Cash)
Keys (Car/Home/Office)
Inova LED Light (on 2' Paracord Lanyard)
Bandanna
CRK Shadow III with the following items in the handle:
-- Ferrocerium Rod
-- 4 Tinderquik
-- Condom
-- 2 MP1 Tabs
-- Couple Inches of duct tape (mostly for condom repair)

Admittedly the are some days (though they are quite rare) when my attire doesn't provide adequate means to conceal the Shadow III. On those days I carry a folder (lately a BM941) and carry the contents of the Shadow II's handle on my person in some other way.

Very interesting. I have never heard of such a thing although I have seen enough cane pole fisherman to picture what it must look like. Adding a little fishing equipment is something else I have been considering since making this kit and was eager to see if someone else would mention it and what they might suggest. I be keeping an eye out for one of these cane pole kits to see if I can make one fit. Thanks.

That's correct. Incase there is any confusion. This is what I am referring to.



Stickier than duct tape and sterile too!

Very nice setup!

I have a similar deal; I carry a PSK with me, but for places where trouble might be (car, hiking in the woods, etc) I'll carry a waistpack that's basically an expansion. My PSK can't carry shelter; the expansion pack can. You get the idea <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Congrats on packing all that stuff into the altoid tin! This may be 6 one way, half a dozen the other, but I'd recommend moving the LED to the waistpack and putting a smaller one in the tin. Since the tin is what you carry more frequently, and the waistpack only sometimes, it's important to squeeze as much stuff as possible in there. There are smaller LED's that'll do the job of a basic light, which means you can stuff even more into the tin. One example is the micro lenser LED. At only around $10 (US distributor: coast) It's extremely thin diameter wise. (black one in the middle) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Burncycle/stuff/scale.jpg

It's red LED will let you find your way around your gear in the dark without destroying your night vision as well.

The tin itself is fire heavy (good!) but signal light. I know the commercial signal mirrors usually don't fit into an altoids tin sized kit, and they're usually pretty thick anyway, but try and find something that you can substitute. A mirror is important, not just for signaling but for personal hygene. Check out the mirrors in womens compacts- they're usually small and thin enough to stuff in there. Personally, I use a mirror that I aquired as a promotional item. It was one of those nifty things that companies give away with their brand name on them. The brand name was on the rubber holder the mirror sat in; I ditched that, and stuck the mirror in the tin with a piece of tissue over it to prevent scratching. It is glass, so breakage is a concern, but in the tin things don't move around too much and you do have the bigger mirror in the waistpack. The tin lid can serve as an improvised signal mirror, but it's nothing like a real one.

Fitting 10' of ductape in an altoids tin sized container doesn't sound easy! You'll find it useful I'm sure. Consider carrying some safety pins and heavy duty needles as well. Thread you'll find in the inner strands of the #500 cord. Don't forget you have to burn the ends after cutting the cord. A mini bic would be useful for this; sometimes we get so caught up in redundant ruggid firestarting tools that we couldn't even light a cigarette if we wanted to, unless we spent 10 minutes starting a fire to do it; and one shouldn't waste a match burning ends of cordage especially since you may have to do it many times as you go.

I don't know how you close the tin, but if you use a couple of ranger bands then you have even more tinder for fire <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The SAS compass is great. That probably cost you quite a bit of money too. It's only useful for general headings though; I suggest packing a topographical map of whatever area you will be in and a more capable compass in the waistpack. A silva ranger is small and seems to be of benchmark quality, and maps fold rather flat.

In your waistpack, consider carrying an extra space blanket and/or emergency poncho if you can fit it. You might not be able to though, that looks like a thin space from the pictures and there is already a ton of stuff in there. Still, you can never have too much shelter, and can always find uses for them. If you have overhead shelter with the tent, and a ground cover, you can always use one of those emergency ponchos to wear, or to collect rainwater, or some other task. Small coffee filters are good as well; you can filter water before you treat it getting most of the crap out. Or, if you want to pursue this route, there are water filter straws out there, but I don't know how well they perform.

Medium sized clear trash bags with ties are always useful. Tie them around tree limbs and get some water out of them, or make a solar still, or lay them out to collect rainwater. You don't get too much water the first two ways, but if you have 10 or so going at one time it can help. At the very least, setting them up and checking them gives you something to do, which can be a boost to morale.

You're very slim on the bug department. You might want to carry bug repellant wipes. You can survive for 10 days probably, but they don't have to be miserable! They're flat, and you can stuff quite a few in there. Same with sunscreen packets-

If you are living near water, gil nets are inexpensive and compact- enough so to fit in the palm of your hand and can be squeezed and crushed into tight places. Same with trout lines, although it's easy enough to improvise a trout line with 500 cord and some fish hooks with leaders. These aren't legal in some areas, but if you're trying to survive they can help you out of danger first, then [censored] at you later <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> this lets you aquire food while you go off and do other things. You won't starve in 10 days, but it will kill your morale and make you weak if you're busy thinking of food rather than being busy surviving. Speaking of which, I'd carry the cell phone some other way and stuff an MRE ration bar in there (the kind the pilot use). They aren't supposed to be thirst inducing, so you can nibble on it in the time between getting stranded and catching natural food like fish.

Depending on your climate, a few of those chemical hand warmers might prove useful too. In desert (or even snow) you might also want to stuff some of those paper/plastic sunglasses optomitrests hand out after dialiating someones eyes. These fold flat (like the 3d glasses) and can prevent snow blindness. A vaccum sealed sponge will also be useful collecting dew water

Any reason you decided against a wire saw or something similar for cutting thicker pieces of firewood?

Just a few suggestions, I'm not an expert nor do I have very much experience... but I hope I've given you some ideas <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Who decided a PSK is limited to one tin? I started out with the classic Altoid tin, upgraded to 2 surplus aluminum swedish first aid tins ( carried on my channel islands misadventure) and now carry 2 BCB type tins. One fault of these tins is simply getting access to a particular item.The reduced contents size makes dropping anything a real headache. This is where a brightly coloured bandanna or Shemagh comes in real handy! First Aid items are going to be severely restricted to begin with, So I segregated mine into the second tin with a cross peened into the lid for quick I.D. I do not need an impromptu game of 52 pick up digging for aspirin if my companion is suffering a heart attack. The classic wire saw and button compass were developed for downed british pilots. The saw was actually meant to be used on seasoned fences and not so much on resin filled living trees. There are surgical wire bone saws available. I played with a few, thinking a saw meant for living tissue would perform better. The result produced no discernable difference. The button compasses were just that: concealed in uniforms as buttons. These are general bearing compasses used with those collectable silk maps. But do not underestimate one for wilderness survival. One degree error in a mile equalls 92' ( information from THE 2 OZ. BACKPACKER by Rober S. Wood.) I don't know about you, but unless I'm in an Orienteering competition with my old SIlva Ranger I just need to know Los Angeles is 'that-a-way.' After thats it's easy navigation by the local gang graffiti, though the armenians don't bother with it <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. people need to RESPECT their gear and believe in it. If you think that button compass and old USAF survival knife bought on EBAY won't get you out of the Alaska bush YOU AREN'T COMING OUT EITHER <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Brian:

Nice rig. You've got all the major bases covered, and others have already made the suggestions I'd make.

Mostly, I was wanting you to move the "handy" stuff outside the tin -- like the LED. But that might conflict with your desire to detach the tin and use it separately.

I don't know about adding hunting/gathering stuff. If it's just for six days, will you really be fishing, or setting traps? Maybe some glucose tabs to get you over a rough hour or two. Maybe some tea bags to pick up your spirits -- but what to boil the water in?

Finally, you seem heavy on plastic bags to treat water with. Maybe you could sub some of them out for a light silnylon or net ditty bat. That way you could carry water, foraged goods, or dump the kit stuff into it for handier use in an emergency.

This never ends... What a hobby.

Bear

You really spent some serious time reviewing my kits and forming a reply! Thanks a lot!

On the LED thing I think I can probably add a second LED and to the overall kit and put whichever of the two is the best size and shape in the tin then have a total of two LEDs. I really like that Coast light. I think I'm going to have to pick one up. I agree on having a red LED also. Even though the one in the kit is white, my EDC LED is red. I never used to understand the value of night vision but after hearing Goatrider preach so much about red LEDs and night vision I finally ran some tests and "Wow! what difference!" so now I truely 'see the light' when it comes to night vision and red LEDs. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> On the mirror in the tin idea: I have been pondering that one as well. At fist I thought I could glue a piece of Mylar space blanket to the inside of the tin lid but now I'm thinking that if I hit the craft stores I might be able to find more reflective material (like what is on a mirror) that already has a sticky backing. I'll let you know how that project goes. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> On the duct tape, only a couple feet are in the in the tin and the rest is actually wrappped around it. That obviously also answers the question of how I keep it closed. This is certainly not my preferred setup and Im looking for better alternatives that allow me to get in to the tin easier and faster. When you need something from the tin in a hurry (as always seems to be the case), nothing is worse than having to unwrap or cut 8' of duct tape. Been there, done that, still looking for a better alternative. I use the inner strands of paracord all the time and its great stuff. Excellent point on burning the ends. I do have a mini bic lighter in the M2 pack for that. None in the tin but then theres no paracord in the tin either so I figure I'm cool on that one. The 100# firewire in the tin is more like backup cordage for if/when all I have is the pocket kit. I agree on the space blanket in the M2 in addition to the Pcoket Tent. Still trying to squeeze one in there but so far its not looking good. Another good point on the insect repellant wipes. If I could find some wipes with DEET I would certainly add a couple but I havent found any yet. Same with sunscreen. If I could find SPF30+ in a small enough package I'd add it as well. Funny you mentioned the gill net. I have a couple small ones and they are so easily shaped and stuffed that I'm sure I could get one in there. I guess the reason I havent added one is more of a skill issue more than anything else. I have yet to catch anything with a small gill net. Not sure what Im doing wrong. Im a champ with the big nets that stretch out to 6' x 15' or so but I get nada with the small military-sized nets. I keep practicing though. I am going to add a needle and some fish hooks so maybe I'll jam a gil net in there anyway atleast until I find something more important that needs the space. I do have quite a stockpile of SOS rations which do not induce thirst or take much water to digest. I will consider sticking one in there. It sure is easier to think straight when you have atleast a little food in your belly.... I know that from experienceunfortunately. Glasses and chemical warmers... two more good ideas and they take up virtually no space. I decided against the saw because IMHO its easier to burn wood as you find it than expend energy cutting it down with a saw. The only exception IMHO would be the need for splitting wet wood to get to a dry core but I can do this with the 4" fixed blade I carry for EDC or in a pinch either knife in the kit will split smaller pieces of wood with a little creativity.

Again, thanks a lot for taking the time to really disect the kit and give all those great suggestions!!!

Chris you make a great point about the dreaded game of 52 pick up and the way this kit is packed it is practically busting at the seams and ready to explode as soon as opened. You've given the me the idea to pack a mosquito head net in there. There is nothing in the kit so small that it would slip though the holes in the head net so in addition to its intended purpose it would make a nice bag for dumping the kit contents in to when I need to get to that aspirin at the bottom of the kit in a hurry. Wait I don't carry aspirin. I prolly should. I will add a few tabs. Thanks!

no problem, sounds good <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You make a good point about the hunting/gathering/fishing stuff in a 6 day kit. I am considering this low priority. In other words: Im adding it since I have the room but if I needed to let something go to make more room this would probably be at the top of the list. Specialized hunting/trapping equipment is not going to be added to a six day kit, thats for sure. For gathering/foraging I really dont need any special equipment. Fishing... well if Im lucky and get stranded next to a roaring stream full of fish then I figure "great", I'll be ready for it. If not I still see hooks and the fireline and paracord inner strands as being great multiuse items so they will stay. The gill net has other uses too but it would probably be the first thing to go if I find I can use the space better for something like extra shelter material. Am I heavy on plastic bags? I have considered this and I'm still debating this one. I consider water to be priority #2 right behind maintaining body temp. Plus two of the Gerber bags are reserved for keeping my cell phone dry. Like Chris, you also made a great point about having something to dump the kit into. I am doing this for sure. Although I do EDC a bandana I do want this kit to be able to stand on its own so Im trying not to consider my normal EDC items as substitues therfore I am got to add a mosquito head net to use as a bag for dumping the kit in to (in addition to a net for catching fish and insects for bait or even its intended purpose). Another good point on the glucose tabs. I know their usefullness is a hot topic around here that has been debated before. I think youre probably right on the mark with this one too. I know they are not sustanance but they might be just thing to help out if I get a little light-headed from low blood sugar and they are so tiny that they can certainly be squeezed in. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the reply. I really apppreciate your thoughts and opinions.
LOL Amen to that! You can just look over my post history to see how many times I have changed my EDC/PSKs/BOBs/CarKits etc... My quest for the holy grail of PSKs continues and even if I never find it, I will have enjoyed the journey and learned much along the way! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

> I agree on the space blanket in the M2 in addition to the Pcoket Tent. Still trying to
> squeeze one in there but so far its not looking good.

Space bags are generally reckoned to be better than space blankets.

I'm not familiar with the tent... is it more important to have that then a space bag? I'd have thought the bag was more versatile.

I have a space bag also but folded up, the bag easily takesup twice as much room as the blanket. I could never fit one of those in there.

Speaking of Altoids tin, I noted that Chris wrote long time ago that he gave up on Altoids because the binder and base is made from cattlebone derived calcium (thus a risk of mad cow disease). Was this an issue because of the possibility of boiling water in it? I'm just wondering about it and if it's still to date.

Frankie

"Fitting 10' of ductape in an altoids tin sized container doesn't sound easy!"

Why waste precious interior space on duct tape? I wrapped 5 ft. of duct tape lengthwise on one of those fake plastic credit cards (about 9 full wraps). Then I taped the bundle to the (outside) bottom of the Altoids tin. I wrapped a single narrow strip of DT around the seam of the can with an "emergency pull tab" folded back on itself for quick grabbing & easy opening. The DT is there if I need it, but otherwise it's out of the way.

Sue

Im not going for comfort. Just want to stay alive and relatively healthy. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />