On the Campfire (where the fires burn a little cooler) Ayers posted an interesting thread which may belong over here. <br><br>In survival situations we may need light for many things but it can certainly destroy "temporarily" our night vision and hamper our movement in the night. In a darkened building or cave where there is absolutely no light there is also no "night vision" but outside under stars and moon night vision is often preferrable over artificial light for moving about. <br><br>Anyone have any other experience on using natural night vision and the consequences of artificial light. If you are moving about a camp which has a fire burning you probably don't have any night vision anyway since the fire is in your eyes. In such a circumstance it may be necessary to use a light to look into your kit or whatnot.<br><br>Most of my survival thoughts say that one shouldn't be moving about after night-fall in any case unless absolutely necessary. For getting around a camp or reading or cooking it may often be helpful to have some artificial light. For instance, it is quite difficult to know the state of your supper in the pot while looking down into the fire. A flashlight can quickly illuminate the issue and show you that dinner is boiling and ready. <br>Reading by moonlight is possible but for me I find something brighter necessary except under a full moon.<br><br>Keeping the weeker from fear is often a valid use of artificial light but that purpose can easily be served by low level illumination such as would be provided by a beta light, Krill light or a chem-light. <br><br>Handling any type of injury in the dark, even in the brightest moonlight is very difficult and risky. It is almost impossible to position the victim, care-giver and wound in such an arrangement that care can be provided while the moon is illuminating the scene. Such medicine is potentially more dangerous that helpful. For such work nothing beats a good head mounted lamp. This provides strong illumination where the work is being done while freeing the hands to do the work.<br><br>My experience with the Photon II leads me to believe that with the mod. of a little velcro on the back and on the cap a decent head lamp can be configured. I have also looked at the Petzle Zipka lamp. It's price has prevented me from reviewing it but it has 3 LED's so is much brighter and it is somewhat bulkier. Wouldn't fit in the Altoids tin but probably will get a place in my fanny-pack. Runs on larger batteries as well so probably has a reasonable working life. Anyone have one of these?

Your post is interesting and certainly deserves further investigation. It did trigger several memories from a couple of years ago.<br><br>After having finished a days work putting a raft trip in the water at a place called Diamond Creek on the Colorado River (western end of the Grand Canyon) we began our 75 mile trip back to the real world(?) about two hours after dark. The sky was crystal clear and the moon was full. We spent the next two hours intentionally driving slowly by moonlight only, up from the canyon through Peach Springs Wash. The moonlit canyon walls and desert foliage was beyond spectacular! The other memory is having spent several hours hiking in a Joshua Tree forest by moonlight. So easy to let your mind put you on a planet far, far away. The sights are still vivid in my mind these many years later. There are times when added light may just be an intrusion on the things that need to be seen.

>>>The moonlit canyon walls and desert foliage was beyond spectacular! <<<<br><br>And on moonless nights, the stars are so numerous that you can hardly discern the constellations. Awesome!

Brad,<br><br>Well said, and I agree with what you posted. I certainly have nothing against artificial illumination. I just don't like using it for walking with for reasons I posted and others. <br><br>My daily wear, everywhere, all the time, has included 2 Photon IIs for s few months now - red in left pocket and turquoise in right pocket (I use the Turquoise one daily at work and the Red one frequently for non-work things). In my work vehicle is a 2 cell Mag Light, in use frequently in various buildings (and it's a Mag Light for the "other" uses it can be pressed into). All my personal vehicles have a 2 or 3 cell Mag Light in reach of the driver.<br><br>Our family PSKs have white Photon IIs (Christmas presents). I evaluated a white one a couple of weekends ago when I was conducting a winter survival exercise for some Scouts, and it just impressed the bejabbers out of me - awesome. I loaned it around (on a neck lanyard) to a couple of other Scouters and several Scouts and it was universally admired by all as an extremely useful light in an extremely small package.<br><br>(Previously I evaluated the Turquoise one on a all-too-brief evening in the woods and I tend to agree with the LRI site - if one must use a light on the trail, this is a very good color.)<br><br>For "expendability" rea$on$, all of us carry Mini-mags, holsters, and Nite-Eyz headstraps in our "Be Prepared" packs. Those of us who have great night vision also have red lenses on them (the factory kit, with the hood taped on with electrical tape); the others don't bother.<br><br>Wife and I carry the LED Light branded Trek 4 (?) - 3 AA cell 4 LED orange body 1000' rated "at the ready" when packing (specific location depends on seasonal attire). We also have headlamps for our climbing helmets (just wife and I), but if I'm on a glacier or snowfield I travel better without it turned on. I choose to not spend all the $$$ on equipping the 4 kids with exactly the same gear we use - they still lose things too readily and interests are fickle at their ages (teens).<br><br>And various Coleman Lanterns, white gas or propane fueled, are a basecamp staple for us on most trips, mostly for after-dark supper preparation and some reading - but they are extinguished if not truly needed as a task light.<br><br>Like I said, I'm not against artificial illumination - I just do NOT like using it for night-time travel. If I'm in a close area where eye-poking is a possibility, I put my glasses on simply for eye protection (they do not improve my eyesight much in the "outdoors" otherwise). I think I can count on my fingers the number of times that I could not see well enough un-aided to move safely, or so my recollection goes. Most of those times it was heavy overhead cover and/or in a deep slot (canyon), though there was one memorable early spring <shudder> trip up a mountainside - since then I have not forgotten to check flashlights before heading out.<br><br>After years of working with others, I am quite convinced that while training and experience help, we're not all equally blessed with night vision. I am one of the fortunate ones, as are two of our kids. (in my family, brown and hazel eyes have great night vision and blue eyes range from bat-blind to average, but I do not know if that's universal or coincidence). We usually put the less fortunate folks (family or Scouts) in the center of the group and do very well blacked out, but that takes trust and cooperation. On thier own, some folks really do need some degree of artificial illumination, and I respect that need.<br><br>As for driving without lights - hehehe - now I can tell my wife that I'm not the only one who does that!<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Scouter Tom

This topic brings back memories. I spent 3 years in the infantry stumbling around in the dark. I've ripped through "wait-a-minute" vines in Kentucky, bounced off pine trees in Louisiana, and waded through cold Georgia swamps in pitch black. I've been in forests so dark and nasty that not even a nice set of PVS-7B's will show the way. Some of my most vivid memories of being in the Army are of seeing troops creeping through the woods in a grainy-green hue, or bathed in silvery light.<br><br>BTW, blood is very hard to discern with night vision devices and red-lens lights. Personal experience sort of thing.

Well, in a survival situation, it's generally best to start setting camp no later than half between noon and the horizon. If you have to move, it better be good. Then you use that flashlight and pray for a full moon and no clouds (best in winter).<br><br>In the desert, so long as there is no cloud cover, from the one time I've been in one, once my eyes were adapted, I could see fine from jsut the stars and a sliver of moon. At least well enough to not walk into anything like prickly pears, and my staff scouted two feet in front of me, so....<br><br>However, I also do some amature astronomy. I can tell you all kinds of things about white light and dark adapted eyes. Some of those memories make my eyes water just to think about. Red or green filters are the best bet, especially a weaker light with a green filter. Your eyes have better ability to see green, so you can use a lower power bulb for the same loss of night vision and longer battery life. Mine also seem to come back faster from a green of intensity X than from a red of intensity X, even if they hit your eyes just as hard. For moving about, amber is a good choice. Not as good as red, but you can see blood in it, and it penetrates the night further, IME.

Roger on the blood <grin>. I did that stuff for 23 years, and when I was an Airborne Rifle Platoon Leader, I think there were 2 sets of 1st generation NVGs in the Battalion - maybe 6. When I was in the 9th (Motorized), most of us had NVGs, but we didn't "live" in them.