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#301021 - 05/22/22 02:44 AM Arizona Fatality
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3110
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I thought this was worthy of mention: "Searchers find missing Arizona hiker dead, his dog alive with him."

This an AP story, posted here and likely on a zillion US sites.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/searchers-f...h-him-1.5911972

This gentleman made contact via cell phone, was advised that rescue was coming, was advised to stay put, and still wandered out into difficult terrain. And perished.

It's hard to see how a person could make these decisions in their right mind. But a couple of times I have needed to fast extremely for medical tests. I found my ability to problem solve or make good decisions to deviate from a plan went downhill very quickly.

So at least I am aware of it, and that is a tool in my toolbox. I can only imagine that dehydration would hit much harder and faster. What sort of self-awareness would you cultivate to know when your cognitive abilities were impaired?

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#301022 - 05/22/22 03:25 AM Re: Arizona Fatality [Re: dougwalkabout]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3706
Loc: USA
Good share and thoughtful comments. Not having been in the military or any similar profession, I can only imagine that training and practice while fatigued, hungry, thirsty, cold, hot and so on is the only thing that works reliably to help people to know what the right thing to do is under stress in those circumstances.

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#301025 - 05/22/22 08:04 AM Re: Arizona Fatality [Re: dougwalkabout]
Phaedrus Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3060
Loc: Big Sky Country
Very sad story but I'm glad they were able to bring him home, and of course to save the dog.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#301027 - 05/22/22 01:54 PM Re: Arizona Fatality [Re: dougwalkabout]
Ren Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 450
Loc: Wales, UK
Seems he walked out of cell phone coverage? Or his phone battery went flat I guess.


Edited by Ren (05/22/22 01:55 PM)

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#301028 - 05/22/22 03:28 PM Re: Arizona Fatality [Re: Ren]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Under stress, one's ability to reason degrades significantly (personal experience speaking0. This is just one more example, with a tragic ending.
Most often, you best get is to stop, make yourself conspicuous (bright clothing, signal mirror, etc) and save your energy.

he very likely was thirsty and may have been seeking water - a definite exception to the above guideline. Always carry a bit more than you think you will need.
Why didn't he just dial 911 direct and seek assistance? His phone could have been tracked, simplifying the rescue enormously.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#301029 - 05/22/22 10:47 PM Re: Arizona Fatality [Re: dougwalkabout]
jshannon Offline
Addict

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 626
Loc: North Texas
On 05/15,
"YCSO continues to search for a missing 74-year-old Prescott Valley hiker last seen in Wood Chute trailhead on Mingus Mountain near FS 102 Friday morning. Donald Hayes called his wife that afternoon to say he and his dog Ranger were lost but he wasn't sure where. YCSO Forest Patrol was able to contact Mr. Hayes Friday around 2 p.m. on his cell phone but he stated that he did not want to wait for a rescue and that he was “continuing down a ravine”. He stated he was unsure of what ravine, but told Forest Patrol he thought he was moving northwest and saw Williamson Valley. He also said he still had food and water and was turning his phone off to save the battery. There has been no further communication with him, and efforts to use GPS through his cell phone have been unsuccessful."

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#301030 - 05/22/22 11:43 PM Re: Arizona Fatality [Re: jshannon]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
A power bank, even a small one, is a nice accessory to a ell phone...
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#301031 - 05/23/22 02:41 AM Re: Arizona Fatality [Re: jshannon]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2321
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: jshannon
On 05/15,
"... and efforts to use GPS through his cell phone have been unsuccessful."

It's a shame the guy died, but I'm wondering what the above statement means. Retrieval of a GPS location from someones phone - assuming they were attempting to do this without the phone owners participation/permission? If this is indeed what the statement means, while I can understand why rescuers would love to gain access to this type of information, I am dead set against them being able to. Or anybody being able to do it, for that matter.

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#301032 - 05/23/22 03:26 AM Re: Arizona Fatality [Re: haertig]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3706
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: haertig
It's a shame the guy died, but I'm wondering what the above statement means. Retrieval of a GPS location from someones phone - assuming they were attempting to do this without the phone owners participation/permission? If this is indeed what the statement means, while I can understand why rescuers would love to gain access to this type of information, I am dead set against them being able to. Or anybody being able to do it, for that matter.


There are two usually-used technical means to find a cellphone’s location along with two that are unusual. There are several legal means to obtain the information.

Addressing the technical side, the vast majority of phones made today have a Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) receiver, including the US GPS system, Europe’s Galileo, Russia’s GLONASS, China’s BeiDou, India’s IRNSS and Japan’s QZSS.

Any cellphone that is connected to a cellular service provider can be located to the cell tower it’s connected to. If multiple cell towers are within range, the cellular service provider can narrow this area down dramatically and provide a reasonably precise location without any GNSS signal — this is an inherent capability of cellular telephony systems.

At least a few US law enforcement agencies have fake cell tower devices commonly called “Stiingray” that can be used to intercept phone calls and locate devices precisely. Let’s not discuss the legalities of their use here, as that definitely would get into politics quickly.

Finally, I understand that in at least a few cases US military aircraft have used their electronic warfare capabilities to find a missing person’s cellphone by its radio emissions to assist SAR assets.

On the legal side, I have “Find My” turned on for my iPhone and iPad, so anyone with my AppleID credentials and the authorized members of my immediate family can find my iPhone and my iPad — non-Apple devices have similar capabilities. Hopefully nobody has my AppleID credentials but me. I understand that other platforms work very similarly.

If the police demand it, Apple and/or my cellular carrier will give the location data they have for my devices. For a criminal investigation this requires a warrant. I understand that in an emergency (such as someone missing in the wilderness or being kidnapped) there’s a way for law enforcement agencies to skip the warrant requirement.

While one can turn the GNSS components off on smartphones, connecting to a cell tower will always give your carrier some degree of location information for your device. There’s no way around it without Airplane Mode, turning the device off, or not carrying one at all.

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#301033 - 05/23/22 03:28 AM Re: Arizona Fatality [Re: dougwalkabout]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3706
Loc: USA
Also, if you dial 911 and your phone has a GNSS receiver, it will attempt to provide your GNSS location to the Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP, aka 911 call center). So dialing 911 might be better than calling the police, SAR or others directly, if you want to be found.

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