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#300873 - 03/28/22 09:53 PM Re: Garmin inReach Mini 2 [Re: jshannon]
paulr Offline
Addict

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 496
Yes they do have some bigger ones with screens and maps. Can you alternatively use your phone for maps? Etrex-like devices aren't that common any more.

Re prepaid phone minutes, they always expire and then your service is shut off / phone number cancelled, so you have to keep adding more. It's impossible to buy a 60 minute block just in case, and keep it unexpired if you don't use your phone. Everyone wants to sell monthly subscriptions so they can sit back and collect revenue while doing nothing.

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#300875 - 03/28/22 10:28 PM Re: Garmin inReach Mini 2 [Re: paulr]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: paulr
....... Everyone wants to sell monthly subscriptions so they can sit back and collect revenue while doing nothing.

Sit around and do nothing? Not exactly.

IERRC

What you are paying for (among other things) is to have someone monitor 24/7 for SOS messages. And that someone needs to be knowledgeable about SAR, have a world wide database of SAR resources, etc. Oh yeah, and since this is not a tax supported entity, they need to turn a reasonable profit too.

You get what you pay for.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#300877 - 03/29/22 12:36 AM Re: Garmin inReach Mini 2 [Re: paulr]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
Originally Posted By: paulr
Yes they do have some bigger ones with screens and maps. Can you alternatively use your phone for maps? Etrex-like devices aren't that common any more.



And thats probably why there aren't any more etrex like handhelds, everyone says just use your phone. but a phone is bigger, harder to see, more fragile and doesn't run last 24 hours on a charge.

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#300890 - 03/31/22 04:50 PM Re: Garmin inReach Mini 2 [Re: AKSAR]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Question What has been the experience with the various subscription services? When a distress is broadcast, what has been the response and the outcome?

I know in the movies, everything moves along smoothly, with no hassles or hiccups, but real life SAR is quite different.

I would really like to know about times when there was no response forthcoming, but reliable stats are hard to come by
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Geezer in Chief

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#300891 - 03/31/22 07:54 PM Re: Garmin inReach Mini 2 [Re: hikermor]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Question What has been the experience with the various subscription services? When a distress is broadcast, what has been the response and the outcome?
I know in the movies, everything moves along smoothly, with no hassles or hiccups, but real life SAR is quite different.
I would really like to know about times when there was no response forthcoming, but reliable stats are hard to come by

First off, just to make sure people understand how the system works. If you are using a PLB there is no subscription. It is a program run and funded by your tax dollars. When you trigger an SOS, it goes directly to the Air Force and USCG Rescue Coordination Centers (RCC). They then coordinate the response, and route it to whichever agency (Federal, State, or local) is best able to respond. The downside of PLBs is that it is purely an SOS device. There is no way to send any messages regarding your exact circumstances or needs.

With InReach, one can send routine two way text messages. When doing solo trips, I will periodically send my wife a message letting her know I'm OK, where I am, and what my plans are. (There was a brief outage a couple of years ago when routine text messages were not going to ATT phones. Garmin said SOS messages were not effected.) When you trigger an SOS on an InReach, the message goes to the INTERNATIONAL EMERGENCY RESPONSE COORDINATION CENTER (IERCC). The IERCC is a private, for profit company, now owned by Garmin. When the IERCC receives an SOS, they determine where it is, and which SAR agency is appropriate for that location, and send the SOS on to them. They also immediately try to text back, to get more information. I don't know off hand of any hard statistics, especially regarding failures of the InReach system. My sense is that it has established a good track record.

I have knowledge of several instances when the system worked quite well. In one case, a party was attempting to ski across the Harding Icefield, and got caught in severe weather. In that case the IERCC directed the SOS to the 176th Wing of the Air National Guard (RCC, PJs, Pavehawks, and HC-130s). Using the text capability the RCC was able to determine the skiers had dug in and were reasonably stable (as long as their food & fuel lasted). Due to poor flying conditions, the PJs launched a an overland team to try to ski in. Later the weather cleared briefly, and a Pavehawk helicopter reached the skiers at about the exact time the ground party did. A happy ending.

In another case I have direct knowledge of, the IERCC notified the Alaska State Troopers (AST) of an SOS in the mountains near Anchorage. Coincidently it happened when local volunteer SAR teams were doing a table top training exercise, which immediately turned into a real mission. The AST helo launched but the area was too socked in. A ground team was also launched. The IERCC had tried to text the party, but had no immediate response. However, the InReach device continued to move up the mountain at a pretty good pace. The SAR teams became suspicious that this might have been an accidental SOS (as is known to happen with the older Delorme devices). The IERCC confirmed that indeed it was a Delorme unit. Ultimately it was confirmed that it was indeed a false alarm, and all SAR resources were recalled. Another happy ending. Overall the system worked well. There was good and prompt communication between the IERCC, the Alaska State Troopers, and the volunteer SAR teams.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#300893 - 03/31/22 09:53 PM Re: Garmin inReach Mini 2 [Re: jshannon]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Thank you, AkSAR! I appreciate your extensive post, but I am surprised that there are no SAR stats available. How busy is this place? A call every hour/ every three minutes? And no tracking of outcomes? I suspect that would b a good selling point.

After all, the situations today are a big improvement over the bad old days, pre 1985, when I was active in SAR. back then operations often started with notification that someone was overdue, often without any clear idea of plans. This seems to be the case less often these days.

yet I doubt that your black box, whatever iteration, is absolute security. Glitches can occur an delays may happen. I suspect that a lot of people depend on their black boxes to bail them out, when really the first source of aid is within their group and its resources. Help from outside may come faster than before, but it still isn't immediate, and bad outcomes are still possible.

Based on my experience in the NPS, if this were a govment operation, there would be stats up the gazoo
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Geezer in Chief

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#300894 - 03/31/22 10:49 PM Re: Garmin inReach Mini 2 [Re: jshannon]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3152
Loc: Big Sky Country
I really do need to get one! Obviously tech can't solve every problem but it's another tool in the toolbox.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#300897 - 03/31/22 11:10 PM Re: Garmin inReach Mini 2 [Re: hikermor]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Thank you, AkSAR! I appreciate your extensive post, but I am surprised that there are no SAR stats available. How busy is this place? A call every hour/ every three minutes? And no tracking of outcomes? I suspect that would b a good selling point.
I'm sure there are statistics, I'm just not aware of how to find them. Garmin does have a blog called Saved by Garmin. In a post from last year they were claiming more than 6,000 successful rescues due to InReach. If those numbers are just from since Garmin acquired InReach in 2016, that would average out to about 1000 successful missions per year.

Originally Posted By: hikermor
yet I doubt that your black box, whatever iteration, is absolute security. Glitches can occur an delays may happen. I suspect that a lot of people depend on their black boxes to bail them out, when really the first source of aid is within their group and its resources. Help from outside may come faster than before, but it still isn't immediate, and bad outcomes are still possible.
Obviously, no device can guarantee you will have absolute security. For all the reasons you cite. An InReach can increase your odds of surviving, but stuff happens.

Originally Posted By: hikermor
Based on my experience in the NPS, if this were a govment operation, there would be stats up the gazoo
As I noted above, there probably are statistics, I just don't have access to them. Keep in mind that Garmin is a private, for profit operation. Unlike the NPS, FOIA doesn't apply, and they don't have to release any data. That being said, the general sense I get is that the system works quite well.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#300900 - 04/01/22 12:20 AM Re: Garmin inReach Mini 2 [Re: jshannon]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3152
Loc: Big Sky Country
If a person was willing to spend the money and had reasons to desire more options (eg a health issue, etc) one could carry a PLB and an InReach Mini. I've thought about it.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#300901 - 04/01/22 12:35 AM Re: Garmin inReach Mini 2 [Re: jshannon]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3825
Loc: USA
In my opinion the tradeoff looks like this:

InReach allows for a lot more communications options and has a proven privately-operated Rescue Coordination Center (RCC). There’s a subscription cost. I think all the modern units are USB rechargeable, with the tradeoffs inherent in that.

PLBs have no communications options other than “help” and have the world standard for RCC (USCG or USAF). There is no subscription. They are certified to work for a given number of years and then need an expensive factory service to replace the battery.

I still am considering buying an InReach for the admittedly rare times that I’m both off the beaten track and don’t have an easier to use comms option. I would buy a PLB if I were going to do something truly adventurous, and probably keep it on my person at all times.

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