#29803 - 08/02/04 11:41 PM
FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
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Newbie
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 27
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This may be a long shot, but have any of you ever successfully used one of the popular FRS or GMRS radios in a big city with lots of obstacles? I'm thinking of a family communication backup in case of blackout or phone outage scenario. What general range should I expect?
Maybe I'm looking for another kind of radio. Maybe it's impossible. Although I see NYC bike messengers with something that looks like a radio. Any thoughts?
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#29804 - 08/03/04 12:01 AM
Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
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Addict
Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 572
Loc: Nevada
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The FRS/GMRS work fine for short range. How short depends, going mountain top to mountain top with no obstructions, say a couple of miles, maybe even more. But in the city that would drop. The key is to somehow get use of a Repeater, that would extend your range considerably. There may be a Repeater in your area for GMRS users or you all could get Ametuer Licenses and join a local club that has a repeater (or maybe more than 1) to use. The repeaters need power to run them, so they also can stop working. Keep in mind that you can also loose the repeater if the structure it is on is damaged or burns (WTC).
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#29806 - 08/03/04 04:26 AM
Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Two miles at best, and obstructions will cut down on that. If you want any kind of distance, you'll need something that uses a repeater or something (over five watts and illegal without licencing) that will have the FCC paying you a visit.
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#29808 - 08/03/04 03:45 PM
Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
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Geezer
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
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I don't know squat about HAM, been thinking of getting the no code license for years, but just keep putting it off. My question is this...in the event of a blackout, would repeaters and other in-place comm aids work??? Do they have generator backup, or will they die just like cell phones do???
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#29809 - 08/03/04 06:45 PM
Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
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Veteran
Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
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Yes and no - It all depends on the repeater! Some are on batteries and/or generators, and obviously they will stay up, so are not, and they go down. Of the primary freqs ARES uses in NYC, about 25% are on backup, including one with citywide coverage
Now, one of the things we train for is "simplex" operations - aka, direct radio to radio with NO repeaters. Not that big a deal, just don't try to go from, lets say the Bronx to Staten Island with a 5 watt HT and a rubber duckie antenna - It's NOT going to happen. Heck that going to be a stretch even with mobile units - but people will relay your traffic
On HF, that kind of distance is "trivial", and in jact, depending on antennas can be to SHORT (due to skip)
To give you an example - I live in the FAR NE corner of Queens - I can get my signal into most on Manhattan, the Bronx, MOST of Brooklyn, and small parts of Staten Island, along with oh, 85% of Nassau - enough that I can reach repeaters in all but Staten Island. Depending on what kind of antenna and power you are running, you may reach me from those same spots, SIMPLEX
We had no problems keeping at least 3-4 repeaters on the air during the last balackout in NYC alone, and a lot of the stuff in Nassau was up (they have more sites with batteries than we do, simply because of space - room for batteries in repeater locations can cost BIG dollars and is usually NOT available on a donation basis)
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#29812 - 08/04/04 03:45 AM
Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
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Geezer
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
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I never would have thougth of batteries, I would have figured that even deep cycle batteries would go flat too fast. Learn something new every day...
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OBG
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#29814 - 08/05/04 12:30 AM
Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
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Old Hand
Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 905
Loc: Seattle, Washington
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Our repeater systems are very similar out here. Most have some battery backup, some have excellent backup including generators. My RACES groups practice simplex relays in case everything goes out.
Unfortunately the Ham license is just hard enough to keep people out of the service, but actually requires only a few hours of study to pass. A book, a few hours of reading, a couple of on-line practice tests and just about anyone can get the Technician ticket. This allows full use of the best local VHF and UHF frequencies for community service.
I highly recommend a HAM license to everyone who wants an alternative communication method. The best thing about HAM is that it has had emergency use as a part of its plan from the very beginning. The infrastructure and training is all a part of the "hobby". It is a rare community of any size that does not have an ARES or RACES group with an emergency plan in place and depending on volunteer HAM's.
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#29815 - 08/06/04 06:26 AM
Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
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Addict
Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 496
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FRS works fine in cities, with a range of a few blocks. That's plenty for many purposes and completely inadequate for many others. Ham repeaters have much more range. In a real emergency, ham communications can switch over to a message handling mode with emergency traffic (medical stuff etc., where someone will die if the message doesn't get through) taking priority. Stuff like coordinating family movements (what it sounds like you have in mind) would be lower priority.
I've been thinking for a while that the ham world needs a good, portable, text-only communications device that would use very low bandwidth (up to several minutes to send a 100 character text message). Because of the low data rate, it could cover long distances with very little xmit power. I'd been thinking of it more as a cheap alternative to a satellite phone for remote locations, but it could also be good in those urban situations.
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#29817 - 08/06/04 02:27 PM
Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
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new member
Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 91
Loc: Kansas City area
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APRS?
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He who sits still in a house all the time may be the greatest vagrant of all... Thoreau
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#29818 - 08/06/04 03:11 PM
FRS/GMRS/NOAA/CB Radio??
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Veteran
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1468
Loc: Texas
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Is there such a thing as a single handheld radio that can operate on FRS, GMRS and CB as well as receive NOAA Alerts? More specifically what I'm looking for is simply a radio that can use CB channel 9 and also receive NOAA alerts. Having other CB channels and/or GMRS/FRS capabilities would be considered a bonus but not necessary. Licensing is not any issue. I can and am willing to get a license.
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Learn to improvise everything.
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#29820 - 08/06/04 03:14 PM
Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
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Veteran
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1468
Loc: Texas
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So in order to get NOAA alerts and also have access to CB channel 9, my only option would be to carry two radios?
_________________________
Learn to improvise everything.
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#29821 - 08/06/04 04:23 PM
Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
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Veteran
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1468
Loc: Texas
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I guess I am getting a little off topic in this already large thread. I will address my question more accuratly in a new thread. Sorry.
_________________________
Learn to improvise everything.
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#29822 - 08/09/04 07:00 AM
Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
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Newbie
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 27
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Thanks all for your insight. I thought this might be a little more complicated than going to Wall-Mart and picking up a couple of radios. Looks like I need to do more research. Thanks again.
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