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#295106 - 03/10/20 08:21 PM Re: Well, Italy is shutdown [Re: teacher]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1164
Loc: Channeled Scablands
This doesn't sound good. Italy


#295107 - 03/10/20 08:24 PM Re: Well, Italy is shutdown [Re: teacher]
Doug_Ritter Offline


Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 2102
While it is easy to find smoking numbers, it isn't so easy to find rates, which is more important in this assessment. However, I'd be very surprised if the rate for older smokers in Italy isn't very high and if you include former smokers with lung issues, even higher. Add that to the generally older population and this is the result.
Doug Ritter
Equipped To Surviveģ
Chairman & Executive Director
Equipped To Survive Foundation

#295108 - 03/10/20 09:14 PM Re: Well, Italy is shutdown [Re: teacher]
Ren Offline

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 321
Loc: Wales, UK
Pretty bleak thread from a consultant in Northern Italy.



"5/ Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, Iím saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest."

#295109 - 03/10/20 09:27 PM Re: Well, Italy is shutdown [Re: teacher]
Russ Offline

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5339
Thereís another good read at: 3 Reasons Why Smokers Have Worse Covid-19 Outcomes Ė Jesse Santiano M.D.

It reads like a tutorial in how lungs are damaged and made susceptible to COVID-19. While on active duty and stationed in Spain, Greece, Italy one thing that became apparent was that a lot of men smoked. Aging population, smokers = perfect environment for COVID-19.

Smoking is a risk factor for cardiovascular and cerebrovascular disease. In China, 68% of men and 3.2% of women are smokers. That is from a study by Lancet in 2015. Based on this, we can infer that most of the men who got sick were smokers.

Why is smoking a big deal? What happens when someone smokes?

1. Covid-19 Sticks to Smokers Lungs More Easily

Before a virus causes damage to the lungs, it has to attach to lung tissue. Specifically, the alveoli. The alveoli are the smallest unit of the lung. They are responsible for oxygen and carbon dioxide exchange. The alveoli have ACE2 (angiotensin-converting enzyme 2) receptors. Receptors are where the SARS coronavirus and the Covid-19 sticks to. Once the virus sticks to the alveoli, tissue damage begins.

In an unpublished study called Tobacco-Use Disparity in Gene Expression of ACE2, the Receptor of 2019-nCov, done at the University of South Carolina, the investigators found that smokers have more ACE2 receptors in their lungs compared to non-smokers. The more the ACE2 receptors, the higher the chance of the Coronavirus adhering to a smokerís lungs.

FWIW, Iím not a smoker and due to past issues with people who did smoke, I no longer tolerate them. I donít do second-hand smoke either. I just excuse myself and walk away ó no apologies.

#295110 - 03/10/20 11:07 PM Re: Well, Italy is shutdown [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7507
Loc: southern Cal
And it is not just covid-19; almost everything I have red lately that discusses ways to improve your health, brain functioning, you name it- seems to mention eating right (emphasize fruits and veggies), exercise,no smoking, and control your weight. Seems plausible and fairly basic.
Geezer in Chief

#295111 - 03/10/20 11:53 PM Re: Well, Italy is shutdown [Re: teacher]
Ren Offline

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 321
Loc: Wales, UK
Seems blood pressure and diabetes is also common amongst the over 65s in Italy.

So probably make up the 3 or more pre existing conditions together with whatever smoking related conditions.

National Geo on underlying conditions

Edited by Ren (03/11/20 10:13 PM)

#295134 - 03/12/20 03:43 AM Re: Well, Italy is shutdown [Re: teacher]
DaveL Offline

Registered: 10/03/18
Posts: 73
Loc: Colorado Springs,CO
I was born and raised in out side Pittsburgh PA,
My home town has power plants on the East anWest sides of town, you could catch fly ash in the palm of you hands.Everyone sucked up polluted air.

Almost every adult and teenager smoked, cigarettes. I smoked cigarettes from age around thirteens to around age 45 after that pipe smoker no inhaling then quit cold turkey.
I Had a triple bypass at age 71. So my point is knock off the social shaming of smokers and mind you own business. Now I smoke a pipe of tobacco around twice a week. Because I enjoy it.

Any one passing away In there 70 or older is dying of something ,anyone think they are getting out of life alive MTC

#295136 - 03/12/20 01:01 PM Re: Well, Italy is shutdown [Re: DaveL]
Russ Offline

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5339
This corona virus thing is just showing another reason that smoking is not in your best interest regardless of how much you enjoy it ó some people get sick and donít even know it, other people die. Itís about science and health, not social shaming.

Iím in my late 60ís and regularly push my heart over the old theoretical (220-(age)) max heart rate, there are better formulas, because that one doesnít work; 205.8 ó (0.685 ◊ Age) Is better, I havenít broken that level yet. My resting heart rate as I stand here typing is 62 bpm with a blood O2 reading of 99% (using an Innovo fingertip pulse oximeter)ó neat toy but seems to be accurate. Point is, you enjoy your pipe, I enjoy long walks where I can push myself and not worry about a triple bypass and all the meds that go with it. Yeah, Iím solo on those walks so call me anti-social.

Iím no marathon runner, most Iíve ever run is a 10K and I wasnít racing anything but my watch.

#295141 - 03/12/20 03:37 PM Re: Well, Italy is shutdown [Re: teacher]
Russ Offline

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5339
One thing this epidemic is spotlighting is the selfishness of some people and disregard for the wellbeing of others.
Passenger tests positive for coronavirus on JetBlue flight ó The man knew he was positive for COVID-19 and got on the plane anyway.

...and my family wonders why I never fly on commercial airlines...

You arenít paranoid if they really are out to get you. wink
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, whatís your point??

#295834 - 04/24/20 02:31 PM Re: Well, Italy is shutdown [Re: teacher]
Ren Offline

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 321
Loc: Wales, UK
France seems to be finding that smokers are under represented in coronavirus patients.


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