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#293823 - 10/13/19 01:57 AM Re: Power outages in the Bay Area [Re: chaosmagnet]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 814
Loc: wellington, fl
Wonder if a few hundred thousand small gasoline-powered generators provide a lesser wildfire threat than downed power lines. It is hard form me to sort out the elements of the official decision-making process that influence governmental disaster responses. Science and history are significant factors, but there seems to be other, confounding vectors of influence, like financial liability, political power, public relations and sensationalism.
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Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#293824 - 10/13/19 02:04 AM Re: Power outages in the Bay Area [Re: nursemike]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5227
Loc: SOCAL
Was this a government decision or PG&E? A fire caused by a gas generator is not PG&E’s problem. I doubt PG&E cares if there’s a fire as long as it’s not their fault.
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#293825 - 10/13/19 03:47 AM Re: Power outages in the Bay Area [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7054
Loc: southern Cal
I understand that the decisions are PG&E's. No direct gov't involvement.
Nursemike raises an extremely valid concern but after the Camp Fire last year, something had to be done.

According to an article in the LA Times, the response has been far from ideal.

Still, a power outage for whatever reason, should not that big a deal. Is it that hard to plan ahead? Apparently so....
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#293839 - 10/13/19 08:43 PM Re: Power outages in the Bay Area [Re: chaosmagnet]
Ren Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 166


Edited by Ren (10/13/19 08:43 PM)

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#293846 - 10/13/19 11:18 PM Re: Power outages in the Bay Area [Re: Ren]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7054
Loc: southern Cal
This is an extremely sad event but consider that:

more than 80 deaths resulted from the Campp Fire of 2018.

in the Thomas Fire of 2017, there was one fatality directly attribute to the fire. A few months later, 23 people died in the Montecito mudflow,a direct result of the Thomas fire. They are still searching the debris for two missing bodies.

That is more than 100 fire related fatalities caused by down power lines. Do the math.

The utility companies need to improve their procedures, especially they need to accelerate brush clearance in their right of ways.

We need to adapt to changing situations where the power will be turned off. i am currently locating a small canister stove and pot outside the house so that I can have my early morning - an absolute essential. Mrs.Hikermor won't allow an open gas flame in her kitchen. I don't agree, but she has a potential point (CO concerns).

The only thing that never changes is the need to change.
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#293849 - 10/14/19 12:09 AM Re: Power outages in the Bay Area [Re: chaosmagnet]
LesSnyder Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1577
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
hikermor... if you haven't already purchased a small heat source... I picked up one of the Gas One dual fuel (butane canister and propane 1# bottle with flex hose)after hurricane Irma... I didn't want to use the larger Coleman propane camp stove just for a cup of coffee and to cook some hot dogs...I had one of the units that had a burner on top of a vertical 1# bottle... pretty unstable to boil some water for hot dogs and coffee... the Asian style flat burner looks like a better mouse trap... regards


https://www.amazon.com/GS-3400P-Portable...1407&sr=8-5

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#293850 - 10/14/19 12:41 AM Re: Power outages in the Bay Area [Re: LesSnyder]
Phaedrus Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2417
Loc: Big Sky Country
Originally Posted By: LesSnyder
hikermor... if you haven't already purchased a small heat source... I picked up one of the Gas One dual fuel (butane canister and propane 1# bottle with flex hose)after hurricane Irma... I didn't want to use the larger Coleman propane camp stove just for a cup of coffee and to cook some hot dogs...I had one of the units that had a burner on top of a vertical 1# bottle... pretty unstable to boil some water for hot dogs and coffee... the Asian style flat burner looks like a better mouse trap... regards


https://www.amazon.com/GS-3400P-Portable...1407&sr=8-5


I have that same one, works pretty well. I keep it around for emergencies but sometimes take it to the woods if I'm car camping.
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#293851 - 10/14/19 12:45 AM Re: Power outages in the Bay Area [Re: chaosmagnet]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 814
Loc: wellington, fl
forbes article on rebuilding FL keys

There is a public policy/economics argument that we should establish incentives to relocate out of high risk locations, and disincentives to staying there, like periodic interruption of electrical service. The article suggests that this rational approach conflicts with American frontier ideology, and will cause lots of problems in the future.

We can engineer a survival stronghold that will resist wild fires-underground construction, self-sufficient PV or wind generators, food and water storage, air filtration systems. Is it sensible to use resources to do this rather than to use those resources to relocate to a less hostile environment.
_________________________
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#293852 - 10/14/19 02:11 AM Re: Power outages in the Bay Area [Re: LesSnyder]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7054
Loc: southern Cal
My stoves of choice are backpacking models - either a MSR Pocket Rocket (basically a burner head which screws onto an isobutane canister) light, easy to operate, and hot or a trangia alcohol stove - also light and simple to operate, adequate heat.

I carried the trangia for years doing SAR and really appreciated its utility. Sometimes hot food was critical, both for the victim and for SAR personnel.

There are all kinds of light cook sets that work well with these stoves. For larger groups, especially when car camping, I scale up to a two burner propane stove running off the smaller cylinders.

There is alwys the option of a cheery campfire - chestnuts roasting, and all that.....
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Geezer in Chief

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#293859 - 10/14/19 03:44 PM Re: Power outages in the Bay Area [Re: LesSnyder]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5227
Loc: SOCAL
I have a similar GasOne stove (butane only) that has been mostly used on the kitchen counter during power outages. Pop a window for ventilation and boil water, heat some soup, cook an omelet... Good temperature control; it can boil water quickly and simmer too.

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