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#293056 - 08/20/19 03:05 AM Re: More on Bears and Firearms [Re: Doug_Ritter]
LesSnyder Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1557
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
Bingley, not sure of your firearms background, but the decision is dependent on a couple of things...

auto loaders...typically have much lighter trigger pull (especially one handed) but due to the breach locking design are limited to bullet weights less than 250 grains (7000 grains per pound), and a velocity of around 1600 feet per second... they do offer more rounds in a magazine than a revolver...a hot rodded 10mm Glock would be my choice, though a good friend carries a .460 Roland conversion when elk hunting

wheel guns (revolvers) come in two varieties, double action where the trigger pull both rotates the cylinder and raises the hammer, and single action where you must manually raise the hammer... the single action trigger is much lighter, but is best put into service by two hands... the stronger revolver action allows much higher pressures to be generated by the cartridge, but limits the number of rounds to five or six in .45 caliber models... most dangerous game cartridges use a monolithic bullet with blunt nose as they are not used in an auto loading pistol.... additionally a .454 Casull can handle a 350 or so grain bullet at velocities pushing 1900 fps, but the firearm can still shoot lower powered .45 Colt cartridges for practice... that would be my choice in a Ruger Redhawk

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#293058 - 08/20/19 04:43 AM Re: More on Bears and Firearms [Re: Doug_Ritter]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1105
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Looks like Aspen Colorado has had three bear attacks recently.

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/08/19/third-bear-attack-aspen/


When we went huckleberry picking a couple of weekends ago we were in black bear, wolf, cougar country with a small dog and kids. We just brought spray. All those critters are hunted there, so the chances of attack are slim, but still there is the occasional cougar attack of dogs or kids, If it was just adults we wouldn't have bothered with anything.


The wolf pack there has killed about 30 calves in the last year or so.http://nwsportsmanmag.com/wdfw-releases-more-info-on-removal-of-opt-pack-court-case-impact/

Friends of a friend's family also lost livestock to another wolf pack nearby
http://nwsportsmanmag.com/togo-pack-to-be-removed-due-to-livestock-attacks/

I look for the lightest gear I own that will work for the conditions.

For wolf, cougar, black bear that means spray or a Ruger LCRX 3" revolver with hard cast handloads. The grizzly country means bear canister for food, spray and at least 1 44 mag in the group.

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#293059 - 08/20/19 05:48 AM Re: More on Bears and Firearms [Re: Doug_Ritter]
Phaedrus Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2332
Loc: Big Sky Country
The LCRx 3" is a fine little revolver! I never carry it afield anymore but I really should. Living in Montana it's a bit underpowered for bigger threats here but it would still be fine for small game hunting, etc. Or of course to ward off 2 legged threats.
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“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” Naguib Mahfouz

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#293064 - 08/21/19 06:30 AM Re: More on Bears and Firearms [Re: Doug_Ritter]
Burncycle Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 529
Thanks for sharing that.

I'm in public safety as a firefighter, and under ordinary circumstances when seconds count, help is just minutes away -- but they can be the longest minutes of your life. In the outdoors, the problem is exacerbated and help could be hours away. Consequently, I do carry a firearm whenever possible and my interest has led me to become an instructor as well.

Firearms are of course no panacea and are only part of a comprehensive strategy to help avoid a potentially dangerous encounter in the first place, along with other best practices such as announcing your presence, securing your food and carrying deterrents like spray. Even as a last resort though, a firearm has it's place as a tool in the toolbox, and I'm glad they have statistically shown to result in positive outcomes generally speaking.

As with anything else, the one you'd be willing to consistently carry (so that you'll have it with you if you ever need it) is among the top considerations with selection. I generally find that the firearm I carry with me outdoors is the same as the one I carry in daily life -- typically a 9mm subcompact, for a variety of reasons. Primarily, it's light and I've trained with it exhaustively, and along with a realistic assessment of potential threats (two legged and four) I've found it a reasonable trade-off.

This goes against conventional wisdom where some will claim you need a beefy revolver firing quite a powerful round or you might as well not even bother. My issue with that is threefold -- they're generally larger and heavier, and knowing my own capabilities and limitations, I'm not as confident that I can place follow up shots as accurately and quickly under stress as I can with other alternatives. Finally, statistically it hasn't turned out to be as critical as some would claim.

Long arms are in a whole different category of course, but outside of a few situations it's not a practical option for a lot of outdoor activities.


Edited by Burncycle (08/21/19 06:32 AM)

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#293065 - 08/21/19 06:45 AM Re: More on Bears and Firearms [Re: Doug_Ritter]
Phaedrus Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2332
Loc: Big Sky Country
One definitely needs to choose a sidearm that can be used effectively. More gun than you can manage won't be ideal. Alaskan guide Phil Shoemaker used 4 x 147gr Buffalo Bore 9mm hard cast to kill a 1,000 lb grizzly that attacked his clients but I'd say that there was more than a little luck involved. I know someone personally that used a 9mm with 115 ball ammo to defend himself against a black bear. He expended all 30 rounds that he had on his person and the bear...ran off. Literally, he watched it run hundreds of yards away from him, up the side of a ridge and vanish on the other side! The conventional wisdom is that you don't need to kill a black bear to end an attack, just have enough gun to dissuade it. I'm not sure how valid that is and certainly leaving a wounded animal for someone else to deal with is less than ideal.

I don't presently have a big bore handgun but it's on my to-do list.
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“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” Naguib Mahfouz

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#293080 - 08/21/19 11:44 PM Re: More on Bears and Firearms [Re: LesSnyder]
Doug_Ritter Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 1983
Originally Posted By: LesSnyder
Bingley, not sure of your firearms background, but the decision is dependent on a couple of things...

auto loaders...typically have much lighter trigger pull (especially one handed) but due to the breach locking design are limited to bullet weights less than 250 grains (7000 grains per pound), and a velocity of around 1600 feet per second...


Somewhat of a generalization and there are exceptions. For example, there's the Desert Eagle in .50 AE. Love to shoot it, would hate to carry it. ;=)

In large calibers, generally a revolver is also much lighter and capacity is more closely matched to what a similar sized semi-auto would be. All my clients going to or residing in AK have carried large frame revolvers, if they carry a handgun.
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#293082 - 08/22/19 01:48 AM Re: More on Bears and Firearms [Re: Doug_Ritter]
Montanero Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1509
Loc: North Carolina
It is about the combination of penetration and damage it will cause. Large caliber with high velocity for heavier targets. There are many options with bullet type as well. I am not sure I would want a hollow point for a grizzly, may not penetrate deep enough.

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#293083 - 08/22/19 03:30 AM Re: More on Bears and Firearms [Re: Doug_Ritter]
Phaedrus Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2332
Loc: Big Sky Country
Yeah, I think (generally) hard cast is the way to go for handguns for dangerous game.
_________________________
“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” Naguib Mahfouz

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#293091 - 08/23/19 04:57 PM Re: More on Bears and Firearms [Re: Doug_Ritter]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1408
Question: what kind of bear is best?

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#293092 - 08/23/19 05:07 PM Re: More on Bears and Firearms [Re: Bingley]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2111
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Do you mean which bear is best to encounter? My first reaction is either a koala or a panda. However, if I do encounter either in the wild, that is a sure indication that I am indeed lost.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
“Trust me, this is not gonna end well!” — Pleakley, Lilo & Stitch

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