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#292286 - 05/13/19 11:42 AM Re: Grabbing Your Bag When Running Off Burning Plane? [Re: Herman30]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Herman30
A purse can be worn so it is on a persons body all time with the strap worn across body. That way you can jump up and start running and purse comes with you automatically.

What then is the difference between a woman holding her purse during the flight and having her small bag under the seat and throw it over her shoulder before getting up?

Jeanette Isabelle
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"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#292287 - 05/13/19 12:00 PM Re: Grabbing Your Bag When Running Off Burning Plane? [Re: Michael2]
Herman30 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 271
Loc: Finland
Valuable seconds that might be difference between life and death in an airplane fire. When you have to evacuate a plane you do not spend one second searching for a bag. If itīs not on your body you leave it.

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#292288 - 05/13/19 12:23 PM Re: Grabbing Your Bag When Running Off Burning Plane? [Re: Michael2]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6854
Loc: southern Cal
It's a matter of priorities. The plane is an immediate threat; the absence of life saving meds not so much.

I am at the stage in life where I regularly take 'life saving" meds (blood thinner) on a daily basis and when I travel I always take an adequate supply, readily at hand. On a commercial flight I do not use the overheads, but stow a small backpack at my feet. My travel clothes have plenty of pockets, so that necessities can be kept on my person.

At an accident scene, there should be no problem securing aide for whatever meds might be lost....
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#292289 - 05/13/19 12:24 PM Re: Grabbing Your Bag When Running Off Burning Plane? [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5099
Loc: SOCAL
I saw a video recently where a largish passenger on an aircraft that caught fire took the time to take his largish carry-on bag and most of the folks behind him died.

Moscow plane fire passenger accused of 'blocking aisle to grab back pack' as 41 died
&
Plane inferno survivor clutching rucksac...s from escaping

This isnít about getting those really important meds (seems like just about everybody except me is on some type of medication), this is about survival and not being the guy in the video. In an aircraft fire anything & everything that doesnít help you escape the aircraft is expendable. But there will always be people who just donít understand that seconds count. Only 3 people behind this guy survived, 41 died.

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#292290 - 05/13/19 01:05 PM Re: Grabbing Your Bag When Running Off Burning Plane? [Re: Michael2]
NAro Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/15/01
Posts: 487
Originally Posted By: Tjin
Our brains don't jump into the flee reflex until the last moment. Although that can be a good thing, as most will act rationally first, but a little too slow then they should.

Not exactly accurate. After the initial "What its it?" or "orienting reflex (OR)", the automatic response is fight/flee/freeze (FFF). That's probably 400 milliseconds. To do anything else requires higher cortical functioning, and takes a moment. So no... our brains do not jump into the flee reflex at the last moment... they jump into it at the first moment.

Originally Posted By: Tjin
You need to prime your brains by training. People who are used to thinking and acting quickly, be in sports of work, have an edge on this. Getting into a realistic evacuation drill on a plane is hard. But you can run the steps you need to take to evacuate the plane, front or backside, in your head.


Yes and no: One has to be trained to quickly overcome the FFF response and THEN do something else/better. When individuals appear to NOT FFF, what's really happening is that they suppress that FFF behavior so very quickly, and move to the "something else" so very quickly, that it appears they do not have the FFF. But they do. You can not learn to do this with any mental rehearsal alone. Significant training is needed to teach someone to suppress their FFF quickly after the OR trigger. And it has to happen in the presence of a trigger or something very similar to the actual trigger... it can't be training all in your head.

I see no way to train the average airline public to overcome the FFF and behave more in line with airline attendant's instructions. In part I believe that's why they (in some airline training) are trained to scream in unison the same cues: "get out...get out.. leave your luggage...get out ...get out" The hope is to derail the passenger's luggage behavior and cue them to do the right thing... get out.

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#292295 - 05/13/19 05:52 PM Re: Grabbing Your Bag When Running Off Burning Plane? [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2068
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Jeanette_Isabelle
What if those items cannot fit in her pockets and she prefers a purse to a fanny pack?

I vote on you over carry with you every time, even if that means wearing ugly cargo pants or the fashion sin of the world, the fanny pack.

When it's on you then you are less at risk of losing control of it and being separated from your meds, and other passengers are less at risk of being blocked or slowed down as it drags and gets hung up on things on the way out. On you is a win-win for everybody.

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#292296 - 05/13/19 05:54 PM Re: Grabbing Your Bag When Running Off Burning Plane? [Re: NAro]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1756
Originally Posted By: NAro

Not exactly accurate. After the initial "What its it?" or "orienting reflex (OR)", the automatic response is fight/flee/freeze (FFF). That's probably 400 milliseconds. To do anything else requires higher cortical functioning, and takes a moment. So no... our brains do not jump into the flee reflex at the last moment... they jump into it at the first moment.


No, I mean the stage in front of that. If you evacuate by waiting in the evacuation line, you are still rational.

Originally Posted By: NAro
You can not learn to do this with any mental rehearsal alone.


Yes, but again, with actual training being unpractical; that's pretty much all you can do.

I mean I can just enroll in a helicopter crash training (that's just off-shore work certification, but open to anybody), but you can't for an airliner.
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#292312 - 05/17/19 07:59 PM Re: Grabbing Your Bag When Running Off Burning Plane? [Re: Michael2]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 853
Loc: Southern California
Just a couple of thoughts:

First people get dumb in high stress situations. Done it, seen it. It's as prevalent as group think and spectator behavior.

Second, having a small, think large point and shoot camera belt pouch, go bag. Something you can in the 2 seconds it takes to un*** your seat, with cash, documents, and medications isn't a bad. I regularly use a vest for the same purpose.

Cramming my 6 foot and change frame into an airline seat is tight enough without my thighs bulging with my go bag.
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Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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