Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#290606 - 09/18/18 09:01 PM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: hikermor]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1096
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Dean is the writer of the article in the link from the initial post.

In that article he says of Herraro-

"The often cited Efficacy of firearms for bear deterrence in Alaska by Tom S. Smith, Stephen Herrero, and others, included 37 instances of a handgun being present when a bear attacked a human. The instances collected were from 1883 to 2009. They recorded 6 failures to stop the attack out of the 37 instances. That is an 84% success rate. Pistol and ammunition technology have greatly improved since 1883.

The authors of the Efficacy of firearms have not released their data. There could be as many as six instances of overlap between the Efficacy of firearms data set and our collection, so a combination of the data is not useful unless the Effficacy of firearms data set is released. We cannot know how many of the six “failures” of the efficacy study might be because the handgun was never attempted to be used, was unable to be accessed because it was buried in a pack, or for other reasons."




Edited by clearwater (09/18/18 09:04 PM)

Top
#290607 - 09/18/18 09:06 PM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: clearwater]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1096
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Also here is another recent bear spray failure-

"https://www.guns.com/2018/09/18/grizzlies-kill-wyoming-man-as-bear-season-stalled-by-lawsuit-video/

" The experienced guide had fatal injuries consistent with a bear attack. Investigators recovered a discharged can of bear spray near his body."

Top
#290656 - 09/21/18 05:12 PM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: clearwater]
GoatMan Offline
Member

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 102
Creepy detail of the latest Wyoming griz attack.

https://trib.com/lifestyles/recreation/w...4562b06717.html

Top
#290658 - 09/21/18 05:33 PM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: clearwater]
Phaedrus Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2268
Loc: Great Plains
Very scary!
_________________________
“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” Naguib Mahfouz

Top
#290916 - 10/22/18 02:09 AM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: clearwater]
Jax Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 12
Loc: Missouri
A good revolver is what I usually carry with me.

Top
#290923 - 10/23/18 04:17 AM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: clearwater]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1096
Loc: Channeled Scablands
There is the story of tourists on the bus in Alaska. One fellow asked what the large spray canisters were that hung from a couples pack belt. They replied they were pepper spray to stop bear attacks. He replied he preferred lead based bear deterrent.

Top
#290929 - 10/23/18 04:45 PM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: clearwater]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6863
Loc: southern Cal
I thin this incident makes the point that some situations are unwinnable - both a firearm and bear spray were present and neither did the job. Probably you should carry what you are most comfortable and deploy it effectively - and hope you don't encounter a determined grizz...
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

Top
#290930 - 10/23/18 04:52 PM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: clearwater]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 505
Loc: UK
The laws of physics are a bit hard to argue with. Here's the foot/pounds handgun calibres produce in Corbon DPX, which the stopping power guru Evan Marshall says 'is simply the best'.
Whether you agree with him or not, you can see that the major calibres of 38 Super Auto + P,.357 mag, .357 sig, 10mm, .40, 45 Auto + P and 400 Corbon, don't actually have that much foot pounds between them.
And the 9mm + P isn't a huge way behind (15% between it and the .357 Mag).
And as has often been said; the only thing the different schools of stopping power agree on is; you have to actually hit the target to achieve anything. Carry the most powerful you can hit something with, if you are going with a firearm.

Easiest to read on the page: https://www.corbon.com/corbon/dpx/handgun

Part Number Handgun Caliber Bullet Weight Average Velocity/Energy Barrel Length
DPX3260/20 32 Auto 60gr DPX 1050fps/147ftlbs 2.5

DPX38080/20 380 Auto 80gr DPX 1050fps/196ftlbs 2.5

DPX0995/20 9mm Luger 95gr DPX 1300fps/357ftlbs 3.5

DPX09115/20 9mm Luger +P 115gr DPX 1250fps/399ftlbs 4

DPX38110/20 38 Special+P 110gr DPX 1050fps/269ftlbs 1.875

DPX357125/20 357 Mag 125gr DPX 1300fps/469ftlbs 4
DPX38X125/20 38 Super Auto+P 125gr DPX 1350fps/506ftlbs 5

DPX357SIG125/20 357 Sig 125gr DPX 1350fps/506ftlbs 4

DPX40140/20 40 S&W 140gr DPX 1200fps/448ftlbs 4

DPX10155/20 10mm Auto 155gr DPX 1200fps/496ftlbs 4.6

DPX400CB155/20 400 COR®BON 155gr DPX 1200fps/496ftlbs 4.6

DPX41180/20 41 Rem Mag 180gr DPX 1300fps/676ftlbs 4

DPX44S200/20 44 S&W Special 200gr DPX 950fps/401ftlbs 4

DPX44M225/20 44 Rem Mag 225gr DPX 1350fps/911ftlbs 8.375

DPX45160/20 45 Auto 160gr DPX 1050fps/392ftlbs 3

DPX45185/20 45 Auto+P 185gr DPX 1075fps/475ftlbs 5

DPX45C225/20 45 Colt +P* 225gr DPX 1200fps/720ftlbs 7.25

DPX454250/20 454 Casull 250gr DPX 1650fps/1512ftlbs 7.5

HT460SW275/20 460 S&W Magnum 275gr DPX 1825fps/2034ftlbs 8.375

HT500SW275/12 500 S&W Magnum 275gr DPX 1665fps/1688ftlbs 8.375

HT500SW325/12 500 S&W Magnum 325gr DPX 1800fps/2338ftlbs 8.375
*Not Loaded to SAAMI Specifications. Please see our FAQ.


Edited by quick_joey_small (10/23/18 05:32 PM)

Top
#290935 - 10/23/18 08:46 PM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: clearwater]
Montanero Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1482
Loc: North Carolina
What kills is penetrating through something vital and causing enough damage. So large and fast would be good.

Top
#290939 - 10/24/18 01:09 AM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: quick_joey_small]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1096
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small
The laws of physics are a bit hard to argue with. Here's the foot/pounds handgun calibres produce in Corbon DPX, which the stopping power guru Evan Marshall says 'is simply the best'.
Whether you agree with him or not, you can see that the major calibres of 38 Super Auto + P,.357 mag, .357 sig, 10mm, .40, 45 Auto + P and 400 Corbon, don't actually have that much foot pounds between them.
And the 9mm + P isn't a huge way behind (15% between it and the .357 Mag).
And as has often been said; the only thing the different schools of stopping power agree on is; you have to actually hit the target to achieve anything. Carry the most powerful you can hit something with, if you are going with a firearm.

Easiest to read on the page: https://www.corbon.com/corbon/dpx/handgun

Part Number Handgun Caliber Bullet Weight Average Velocity/Energy Barrel Length
DPX3260/20 32 Auto 60gr DPX 1050fps/147ftlbs 2.5

DPX38080/20 380 Auto 80gr DPX 1050fps/196ftlbs 2.5

DPX0995/20 9mm Luger 95gr DPX 1300fps/357ftlbs 3.5

DPX09115/20 9mm Luger +P 115gr DPX 1250fps/399ftlbs 4

DPX38110/20 38 Special+P 110gr DPX 1050fps/269ftlbs 1.875

DPX357125/20 357 Mag 125gr DPX 1300fps/469ftlbs 4
DPX38X125/20 38 Super Auto+P 125gr DPX 1350fps/506ftlbs 5

DPX357SIG125/20 357 Sig 125gr DPX 1350fps/506ftlbs 4

DPX40140/20 40 S&W 140gr DPX 1200fps/448ftlbs 4

DPX10155/20 10mm Auto 155gr DPX 1200fps/496ftlbs 4.6

DPX400CB155/20 400 COR®BON 155gr DPX 1200fps/496ftlbs 4.6

DPX41180/20 41 Rem Mag 180gr DPX 1300fps/676ftlbs 4

DPX44S200/20 44 S&W Special 200gr DPX 950fps/401ftlbs 4

DPX44M225/20 44 Rem Mag 225gr DPX 1350fps/911ftlbs 8.375

DPX45160/20 45 Auto 160gr DPX 1050fps/392ftlbs 3

DPX45185/20 45 Auto+P 185gr DPX 1075fps/475ftlbs 5

DPX45C225/20 45 Colt +P* 225gr DPX 1200fps/720ftlbs 7.25

DPX454250/20 454 Casull 250gr DPX 1650fps/1512ftlbs 7.5

HT460SW275/20 460 S&W Magnum 275gr DPX 1825fps/2034ftlbs 8.375

HT500SW275/12 500 S&W Magnum 275gr DPX 1665fps/1688ftlbs 8.375

HT500SW325/12 500 S&W Magnum 325gr DPX 1800fps/2338ftlbs 8.375
*Not Loaded to SAAMI Specifications. Please see our FAQ.




Local General Store (Ace Hardware) had bear spray on sale for hunting season for $19.95.

Sportsmans Warehouse has Mossberg 375 Ruger rifles for $339.
---300 gr DGX 2660fps/4700ftlbs

Top
Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
Who's Online
3 registered (M_a_x, chaosmagnet, GoatRider), 47 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
9Line, SkiSoloII, RaymondRussell24, KMNPack, NickChurick
5291 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Area 51
by Herman30
Today at 06:45 AM
Big bag or small bag? (edc)
by chaosmagnet
Today at 02:01 AM
Summer car prep
by hikermor
Today at 12:04 AM
How do you update your first aid kit?
by BruceZed
Yesterday at 01:25 PM
One liter stainless steel cup?
by teacher
07/21/19 09:26 PM
EDC for formal occasions
by teacher
07/21/19 09:22 PM
The Best Thing Since Doug Ritter's PSP?
by Jeanette_Isabelle
07/20/19 08:46 PM
2 strand long MWK - lanyard, zipper pull, etc
by TonyE
07/18/19 08:03 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.