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#289238 - 06/06/18 06:23 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
M_a_x Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 995
Loc: Germany
I think I came over a little wrong. I apologise for that. I do not mean "do not post at all". Some topics just may not be fit for discussion here because crucial information cannot be revealed.
You are right. You need to apply some judgement. In most cases withholding some information will still yield useful information. In many cases the replies will be useful to others even with the missing pieces.
If they tell you to do something you already did, you got confirmation.
You also need to evaluate the information (which you probably do anyway).
The point is: You do not need to feel bad if you do not give information that you cannot or should not give. Expect others to withhold some information too.
_________________________
If it isnīt broken, it doesnīt have enough features yet.

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#289239 - 06/06/18 07:08 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: hikermor]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I lurk on some "survivalist" groups, more for grins rather than any useful information. Typically they indulge in "Mad Max" scenarios which envision a total breakdown of society, starving hoards looting and pillaging, and the virtuous, saintly far sighted preppers having to defend their goods against the unprepped. Hence endless discussions of "How much ammo? What caliber? What rate of fire? etc. etc? OPSEC"

I call BS on all that monkey business. My scenario tends otherwise because I have usually been inclined to assist in times of distress, as a volunteer SAR respondee (which sometimes requires really significant effort) and during a career in the National park Service (which often has very positive aspects). When the next episode of trouble arrives at my doorstep, i intend to patch up my situation, tend to family and neighbors, and then reach out to others to minimize distress and rebuild.

Homo sapiens is a social critter, and we have gotten where we are through cooperation and group expertise. Look at history and you will find that Mad Max scenarios are rare and isolated, and not the way of progress or repair,often a strategy which involves a lot of hard, grinding labor (terribly unromantic and not the stuff of fantasy).

I believe it is more realistic to look at historical examples, such as a war or (because of the war, runaway inflation or a disruption in the supply chain) food could not get to a populated area. While none of them resembled the movie, Mad Max, often people needed to shelter in place, at least for a while. You may be in a situation where your neighbors don't have food and you only have enough for yourselves and the few people you have taken in.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#289240 - 06/06/18 10:00 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6348
Loc: southern Cal
What intrigues me about the SHTF/TEOTWAWKI crowd is their lack of regard for adaptability and "thinking outside the box" when faced with a tough situation - characteristics which are prominent in most real life survival stories, such as the Lone Woman of San Nicolas Island (reputedly 18 years alone, but home court advantage) or Poon Lim, WWII life raft survivor (133 days alone), as well as the plain old "will to survive." For that matter, there is the Donner party, which should be counted as a success, because there were survivors.

What you see on many of these sites are threads with titles like"How Long until Everyone Dies of Starvation," "Knife, Gun, or Both," "Gourmet Meals for Two people without Heat or Refrigeration" (my fave!), "In What Situation would guns NOT be Confiscated when SHTF,"etc).

Yes, wars are tough. I remember WWII as a young kid growing up in the USA - we had enough to eat, although it was often enough pretty ordinary and plain, but a whole lot better than those in Stalingrad during the same fracas.m My point, again derived from historical examples, is that the coordinated, cohesive group will fare better than the hoarding lone wolf. Consider the success of the Mormons in settling the west during the late 19th century....

In general, I go for the proposition that if I unite with and reach out to my neighbors, together we will be able to persevere. Perhaps we shall see how that will work out.

We recently experienced a widespread fire (the Thomas Fire) which burned some homes in my neighborhood. No significant disruption of the food supply, but a good test of individual emergency preps (we did well).

I definitely feel that a more severe test will come with a strong earthquake - disruption of supply chains and services for a significant time, but there will be outside aid in due course. For that eventuality, I do maintain a stock of emergency essentials, good for at least two weeks easily. Due to disruption of the road network, etc. I don't think bugging out will be a feasible option. i will basically camp in my backyard, which fortunately is in SoCal.

I might mention that I have been a firearms owner from childhood and I do own weapons, although not vast quantities of ammo. Violence is a possibility, but other less violent situations are far more likely.

Geographically and sociopolitically, we are a long way from Venezuela. In other locations, I might come to different conclusions.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#289241 - 06/06/18 11:43 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: hikermor]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Yes, wars are tough. I remember WWII as a young kid growing up in the USA - we had enough to eat, although it was often enough pretty ordinary and plain, but a whole lot better than those in Stalingrad during the same fracas.m My point, again derived from historical examples, is that the coordinated, cohesive group will fare better than the hoarding lone wolf. Consider the success of the Mormons in settling the west during the late 19th century....

In general, I go for the proposition that if I unite with and reach out to my neighbors, together we will be able to persevere. Perhaps we shall see how that will work out.

I agree. While I have a four-month supply of the things I need, there is a bigger picture. So far our Torah study group has grown to eight people. Also, though I've never used a firearm, I joined the local gun club (membership is just under a hundred) to find like-minded people. I don't want to do this as unorganized lone wolves. This only works if everyone contributes in some way. If a person did not prep, how will he or she add?

Monday I bought a plastic storage container to organize my prescription reserves. For my next project, I need to reorganize my first aid supplies.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#289243 - 06/07/18 01:53 AM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: hikermor]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1383
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Look at history and you will find that Mad Max scenarios are rare and isolated, and not the way of progress or repair,often a strategy which involves a lot of hard, grinding labor (terribly unromantic and not the stuff of fantasy)


Worth emphasizing! Do you want to do everything yourself, or do you want the neighbors to help you clear the road?

Hikermor, were there actual "Mad Max" situations in history? I haven't given this careful thought, and the closest thing I can think of right now is the nomads. They live in isolated areas in small groups, and if the bad guys come upon them, they have to rely on the strength of their arms to survive. However, nomadic societies are known for hospitality towards strangers. So I wouldn't call that Mad Max at all.

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#289244 - 06/07/18 02:02 AM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Bingley]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: Bingley
Worth emphasizing! Do you want to do everything yourself, or do you want the neighbors to help you clear the road?

I want to work with people we can trust and can contribute.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#289245 - 06/07/18 11:55 AM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 452
Loc: UK
> were there actual "Mad Max" situations in history?

There was nothing but 'mad max' examples before a few centuries ago. Towns were walled, everyone was armed. No police forces, no guarantee of redress in law.... and violence to wives and children taken as given.

Those who think we live in a violent era, need only look at the modern house to see they are wrong.A less defensible arrangement (only glass blocking entry) is hard to imagine.

qjs

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#289246 - 06/07/18 05:26 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: quick_joey_small]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 1976
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small
And it's a dangerous one. You just confessed to a crime on a public forum. I thought you were the one wary of what you said.

Naaa. We're allowed to make jokes in a free country.

Quote:
We had a name for lippy delinquents who liked to joke like that, when I wore blue: prisoners.

That statement just reinforced my point. Is it really like that in the UK? I didn't think it had gotten to that point yet, where you'd end up a prisoner for telling a joke. I hope this is not true.

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#289247 - 06/07/18 06:49 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 452
Loc: UK
> Naaa. We're allowed to make jokes in a free country.

Of course you are. And lawyers are free to misrepresent it in court. Guess what? Your welfare isn't their top priority when they are trying to prove you owe compensation to their client.

> I didn't think it had gotten to that point yet, where you'd end up a prisoner for telling a joke. I hope this is not true.

It isn't true. That's why I didn't say it. I said a 'delinquent' saying it could expect to be thoroughly investigated at the station.
There's nothing more they'd love than being able to say "I confessed to a cop I'd stolen the car I'd just hot wired and I still got away with it!"

Joe Public would get the cop joining in the joke.

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#289248 - 06/07/18 07:21 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: quick_joey_small]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 1976
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small
And lawyers are free to misrepresent it in court. Guess what? Your welfare isn't their top priority when they are trying to prove you owe compensation to their client.

That is 100% true here too. That's why I would never say a word to the police it I ever was interrogated ("interrogation" meaning potentially hostile questioning, not casual conversation or reporting a crime that you observed). Not a word other than "I am exerting my right to remain silent, I wish for all questioning to cease immediately" without my lawyer being present. That is not because I do not want to help solve a crime, it's that I don't want to be drug into defending myself against a bogus charge.

Here in the US, it is OK for the police to lie to you, but you cannot lie to the police. To make an extreme example, you could be called in for questioning about, say, a stolen car that the thief happened to park in front of your house. The cop asks you what you had for breakfast. Being ashamed to admit that you had a donut, you tell him you had eggs. Technically, that is a crime that you could be prosecuted for. Hopefully you wouldn't be. But it could happen if someone had it out for you though.

In the same vein, anything you say to a cop can be used against you in court. They supposedly tell you this when you are arrested, but I don't have any personal experience with that. The unusual thing is, what you say can be used against you, but it cannot be use for you. It's called hearsay, and is inadmissible in court. There are a few exceptions to that, I believe they call them "spontaneous utterances", but for the most part there is nothing that you can say to a cop that will help you. Nothing. The police can't make things easier for you if you help them. It's the district attorneys that decide whether to charge you with a crime or not, the police don't have a say in that. So it is best to shut up and say nothing. Don't agree to any searches, etc. Shutting up will impede their investigation, I get that, and in a perfect world I would not want to do that. But you are at 100% disadvantage when speaking to a cop, so unfortunately things have come to "keep your mouth shut for your own good". No doubt the cops will imply that you are a criminal and would surely talk to them "if you have nothing to hide". Don't fall for it. Just stay silent. Doesn't matter if you're a criminal or not. The advice goes for good guys as well as bad guys.

But back to the original comment regarding joking about laundering money - I doubt ETS will have to take up a collection to bail Jeanette out of jail any time soon. Any lawyer that tried to bring up an isolated joke on ETS Forums against someone in court would (1) probably be laughed out of court, and (2) end up pissing off the judge and/or jury so badly as to get any case they were presenting thrown out.

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