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#286813 - 10/18/17 11:48 PM Sound Advice For Survival Situations
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1867
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
I came across this five-minute video on prepping that, I believe, is a must watch. Everything this man says is common sense; the way he puts it can challenge us to think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC6ClxwGs-o&t=3s

Jeanette Isabelle
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"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#286818 - 10/19/17 04:23 AM Re: Sound Advice For Survival Situations [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Phaedrus Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2155
Loc: Great Plains
Good points!
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#286820 - 10/19/17 04:10 PM Re: Sound Advice For Survival Situations [Re: Phaedrus]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6588
Loc: southern Cal
The types that he regards as unworthy of his "group" are some of the types that I tend not to engage or trust in normal times...Why would anyone look to them in an emergency?

This seems to be some of the simplistic reasoning that permeates so many "survivalist" sites, with an inordinate emphasis on weapons and military tactics - not to say that such means could never be necessary, but they are not all that likely. It's more productive to focus on the far more likely possibilities.
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#286821 - 10/19/17 06:30 PM Re: Sound Advice For Survival Situations [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1384
I mean no disrespect to the OP, but, like hikermor, I find the video to be highly unrealistic for most. If you have really poor judgment, then, yeah, maybe it's worth something.

The biggest clue to me that the video might stem from fantasy is that it seems to neglect the fact that forming a social unit is often a social process. Consequently you cannot easily select and reject people like a dictator. In the "SHTF" world that the person in the video imagines, will he be taking applications online for his survival group? Reading résumés? Holding interviews? Drive around in the Mad Max wasteland, running into exotically dressed people, joining forces to fight a common evil? You're more likely to form a survival group with the social units you already have -- your family, friends, and possibly co-workers and neighbors. Now, there is no rule that says your son, whom you love above all things, cannot be the hot head, the liar, the thief, etc. Even if you want to get rid of him, maybe your spouse doesn't want that. Maybe his siblings will leave you. That's one place where problems come in. I'd like to see the video maker explain to parents how to leave their beloved child to fend for himself.

Now, if you're talking about a ship/planewreck, your survival group has been chosen for you. You can be stuck with the problems.

Discerning character takes a long time of observation. So if the video is about taking in strangers, it's a gross simplification. Moreover, in an organization the problems can sometimes come from the combination of personalities, rather than from any individual personality. That takes time to figure out, too. I don't see any consideration of this issue.

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#286822 - 10/19/17 06:48 PM Re: Sound Advice For Survival Situations [Re: Bingley]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1867
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
I did not get the impression the video is talking about strangers.

Jeanette Isabelle
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"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#286828 - 10/20/17 12:42 PM Re: Sound Advice For Survival Situations [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Montanero Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1407
Loc: North Carolina
Without getting into the person's reasons for prepping or planning for survival, he does bring up an important, and often not addressed, survival necessity.

We all think we understand people, we deal with them every day, right? While the video makes some points about types of people you would not want to "let in" to your prepping or survival groups, it does not address how you make accurate assessments of people. Very few survival oriented sources address this subject at all. I will throw it out there that learning how to more effectively deal with people, especially people in stressful situations, is a key survival skill. Experience with people does help, but you must learn the correct lessons from those experiences.

KEY PEOPLE SKILLS (not a comprehensive list)

Assessing threat (and reducing threats short of violence)

Communication (all aspects)

Leadership

Dealing with Stress and other mental health problems

Deep Survival

This book does a good job of helping to understand some of the issues. It is not a "how to" book, however. There is some good training out there, but it is usually expensive. There are some very good books on the subject, if people take the time to read and understand them.


Edited by Montanero (10/20/17 06:34 PM)

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#286829 - 10/20/17 05:21 PM Re: Sound Advice For Survival Situations [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2948
Loc: USA
Montanero is spot on here. I couldn't have said it better, including the book recommendation.

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#286831 - 10/20/17 05:46 PM Re: Sound Advice For Survival Situations [Re: Montanero]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6588
Loc: southern Cal
Totally agree that "Deep Survival" is a very useful source. My practical experience in dealing with various personalities is survival, or near survival, situations came from several years of volunteer mountain Search and Rescue in Arizona. We had varying capabilities, usually most members were capable hikers - some of us were proficient rock climbers and very hardy hikers and runners. On each mission, various members would respond and you could never predict precisely who would turn up. The challenge was to form functioning teams that could handle the problem, which varied widely - operations lasted from an hour or so, to some that were in the field for more than two weeks. Some people who were only fairly decent hikers nevertheless came to play vital, useful roles, especially in the more complicated operations.

One got to be pretty good at assessing abilities and skills and assigning people to a good role in the operation. People with real personality issues tended to fall out of the group; those remaining were team players. I would expect about the same result in an "SHTF"situation.

At the time,my employers was putting us through some of the very expensive training Montanero alludes to; the odd thing is that I really got to use my training in SAR situations, not so much on the job.

Incidentally, I got inthe habit of keeping a pack loaded and ready to go. We could have anywhere from ASAP to the next morning to assemble for an operation and it was a good idea to be ready to just pick up the pack and walk out the door - very similar to what survivalists call a BOB today. From time to time I would adjust the contents of my pack. Summer in Tucson is not at all like winter..
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#286841 - 10/21/17 07:18 AM Re: Sound Advice For Survival Situations [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1384
It's very interesting to hear the experiences of Montanero and hikermor. I wonder whether I can trouble Montanero for a reading list (once again!). I'd also love to hear of the mysterious expensive training they refer to. What sort of assessment do you get?

It's really hard to imagine being able to discern someone's character so fast. I'm in a line of work where people keep track of each other over decades. But it's amazing how many people who give every indication of being upright choose to cover up the misconduct, sometimes criminal, of someone or for some cause they're invested in. (Incidentally, these are not strangers or obvious non-team players, but people who have gone through years of vetting and close observation in the system. Non-team players tend to have a hard time making it to a position of power.) What happens when one's life is on the line in a survival situation?

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#286842 - 10/21/17 08:59 AM Re: Sound Advice For Survival Situations [Re: Bingley]
M_a_x Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1020
Loc: Germany
The training is not so mysterious. In my company most software engineers get some leadership training to qualify them for the role of project management. This includes training for negotiation and conflict managment. In that training you learn to assess yourself first. That allows you to deal with your character flaws. In role plays you deal with other participants of the training and analyse the footage. That gives you basic skills for assessment and acting accordingly. Refining the skills by practice is then up to you. At some point it will allow you to get even non-team players to work for the team (there may be jobs that fit the lone wolf hot head very well).
If you want to learn about assessing other people, you could work on becoming an amateur illusionist and do some performance. You need to make your judgement quick and it wont be too bad if you are wrong.
Most people can play for a team. Having a good team and the surrounding supporters is very much a leadership issue.

Originally Posted By: Bingley

... but it's amazing how many people who give every indication of being upright choose to cover up the misconduct, sometimes criminal, of someone or for some cause they're invested in.

Very often that is a misconception. For those people the team comes first. They are not upright in a sense of standing for doing the right thing even if it is against the current interest of the team. They could be called loyal though. That really makes a difference.
Originally Posted By: Bingley
What happens when one's life is on the line in a survival situation?

You probably want to have someone around who is loyal and might act to the benefit of the team even if it means to break a law.
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