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#286611 - 10/03/17 01:39 PM Re: why a muzzleloader or shotgun for survival? [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Russ Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4554
Loc: SOCAL
Originally Posted By: Jeanette_Isabelle
Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
Generally this site doesn't really "do" EOTWAWKI discussions so weapons for apocalypse isn't a thing we address much.

Why don't prepare for brimstone hits the fan scenarios? Are we complacent in thinking things will never get that bad in the United States?

Jeanette Isabelle

Everyone has their own version of an EOTW apocalypse and unless you have that well defined, how can you have a conversation about which weapon would be most effective? Define your tactics: Are you surviving in a well prepared bunker/shelter and need to defend it from 2 legged predators, or are you doing a hunter-gatherer thing, roaming the country, scouting out necessary resources. If you are a hunter-gatherer and you come upon a bunker/shelter — what then? Join forces and make friends, or try to take it and the supplies inside. There are lots of variables, too many for an intelligent conversation.

If you weigh the probability of an EOTW apocalypse against a wilderness situation where a hiker loses the trail and can’t find his/her way back, there’s no comparison. One is fantasy and the other happens as a routine.

If you are in a war zone, all bets are off.

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#286612 - 10/03/17 01:58 PM Re: why a muzzleloader or shotgun for survival? [Re: burth]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 5923
Loc: southern Cal
Occasionally I lurk on some of the sites that do EOTWAWKI because they are unrealistic in a rather amusing way (also usually politically tinged). Established order will end suddenly due to some unspecified disaster, and they because they stocked lots of ammo and live in a highly fortified location, will be top dogs.

When you look at history, that is not usually how it happens. Societies do flourish and decline, mostly on a fairly gradual scale (think the Maya for an example close at hand) and populations adjust and carry on. Not that you could not have a massive disaster (asteroid impact, anyone?) but the odds are long. You are probably going to do better to prepare for an earthquake, tornado, or hurricane - events far more likely.

I have spent a lot of time in the outdoors, both because of my personal interests and also because of my work in national parks. I am also a firearms owner. Unless you are engaged specifically in hunting, a firearm is just useless weight, about 100 times less useful than a full quart canteen.

I do keep weapons handy. I did have one experience many years ago where I was really glad I had my 357 in hand. Many of us here are comfortable with firearms, but they don't rule our lives. A gun is a tool, like an ax, hammer, or shovel. They are also fun, and the eight year old that lives inside me likes to get out and make noise once in awhile...
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#286613 - 10/03/17 02:04 PM Re: why a muzzleloader or shotgun for survival? [Re: burth]
Montanero Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1118
Loc: North Carolina
I swear, Hikermor, you and your asteroids! Is there something we should know?

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#286614 - 10/03/17 02:12 PM Re: why a muzzleloader or shotgun for survival? [Re: hikermor]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 5923
Loc: southern Cal
One other thing. If I had to forage for a living, I would not spend a lot of time hunting big game. It is typically not that efficient. In most hunting gathering groups the guys will hunt, and the gals will gather - mostly plant products which provide the bulk of the diet. Much of course depends on the resources available.

Last night I attended a film premiere and subsequent panel discussion featuring some research done by my wife involving the "Lone Woman of San Nicolas Island. This lady, made famous by a novel based on her experience by Scott O'Dell, survived on the island for eighteen years. She did have home field advantage in a resource abundant environment, and by all accounts, she thrived, even without the advice of Bear Grylls.

Funny how her experience is never mentioned in contemporary survival literature.....
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#286615 - 10/03/17 02:17 PM Re: why a muzzleloader or shotgun for survival? [Re: burth]
Russ Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4554
Loc: SOCAL
But did she use a muzzleloader??? Inquiring minds...

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#286619 - 10/03/17 03:47 PM Re: why a muzzleloader or shotgun for survival? [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 5923
Loc: southern Cal
No firearms anywhere in sight. As a matter of fact, none of her gear could be characterized as a "weapon." She did have fishing gear, and stout sticks for birds and seals, etc.

In all fairness, California island coastlines present an ideal survival situation -just wander down at low tide and the supermarket is open for business. The native vegetation on the uplands provides plenty of green edibles for the salad course...
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#286621 - 10/03/17 04:11 PM Re: why a muzzleloader or shotgun for survival? [Re: burth]
Montanero Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1118
Loc: North Carolina
I loved that book when I was young (The Island of the Blue Dolphins). What does your wife say about her in light of her research?

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#286625 - 10/03/17 06:57 PM Re: why a muzzleloader or shotgun for survival? [Re: burth]
Phaedrus Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 1983
Loc: Great Plains
I think it's more that those discussions are usually intertwined politics and religion, two topics that don't really fit here.

I'm not a mod or anything, just kind of guessing.
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“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” Naguib Mahfouz

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#286626 - 10/03/17 07:06 PM Re: why a muzzleloader or shotgun for survival? [Re: Russ]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1557
Loc: North Central Florida
Originally Posted By: Russ
Everyone has their own version of an EOTW apocalypse and unless you have that well defined, how can you have a conversation about which weapon would be most effective? Define your tactics: Are you surviving in a well prepared bunker/shelter and need to defend it from 2 legged predators, or are you doing a hunter-gatherer thing, roaming the country, scouting out necessary resources.

The plan is to bug in until it is time to bug out. Mom and I disagree on where to bug out. We can work on that plan as we are bugging in.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#286627 - 10/03/17 08:36 PM Re: why a muzzleloader or shotgun for survival? [Re: Montanero]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 5923
Loc: southern Cal
My wife is researching the fate of the San Nicolas Islanders who came to Los Angeles in 1935, somehow leaving her stranded on the island. Usually those folks are identified in mission baptismal records as "Nicolenos." Most intriguing is a boy, five years old in 1935, who may have been her son. One hope is that modern descendants of the islanders can be traced and located.

Recently a redwood box has been found near one of her presumed dwellings which might well have been her personal belongings. Much of my wife's work will appear on this website:

https://www.nps.gov/chis/learn/historyculture/lonewoman.htm
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