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#278153 - 12/22/15 08:35 PM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: bacpacjac]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
I've decided on the Alcohol stove for my GHB because of its multi-use. Everclear in the original pint bottle (refilled) - good for the stove, for disinfection, natural tinctures preparation, cleaning optics and electronics contacts, could be suitable for trade or making friends (thus the original bottle), and many other survival uses. Esbit... - is just Esbit, nothing even close. The cat can stove is tiny, zero weight, doesn't require a pot stand, could work with many other fuels as well. Just make yourself familiar with its specifics. By the way, it lights nicely with a single spark from your fire steel or spark wheel.

The best cat can design I've found so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XQVKLlLQjw

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#278157 - 12/22/15 11:28 PM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: Alex]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3597
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Alex
I've decided on the Alcohol stove for my GHB because of its multi-use. Everclear in the original pint bottle (refilled) - good for the stove, for disinfection, natural tinctures preparation, cleaning optics and electronics contacts, could be suitable for trade or making friends (thus the original bottle), and many other survival uses. Esbit - is nothing even close. The cat can stove is tiny, zero weight, doesn't require a pot stand, could work with many other fuels as well. Just make yourself familiar with its specifics. By the way, it lights nicely with a single spark from your fire steel or spark wheel.

The best cat can design I've found so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XQVKLlLQjw


Great video, Alex, thank you. I've got one of these on the drawing board and this is a great tutorial. Thanks!!
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#278158 - 12/22/15 11:31 PM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: Tjin]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3597
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Thanks so much, Tjin! Much appreciated!
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#278184 - 12/24/15 02:53 PM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: bacpacjac]
Cauldronborn2 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 85
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: bacpacjac
Originally Posted By: haertig
I have one of these:

http://www.fireboxstove.com/camp-stoves/3-inch-folding-firebox-nano


A Trangia burner will fit inside, as will an Esbit tablet - and the folding stove will act as a windscreen for those while also supporting your pot. Also, you can feed it with small scraps of wood and bark if you run out of other fuel.

[edit] p.s. - All the pictures of this stove on their website show it with the legs angled inwards, but they can be angled outwards too, if you need to support a larger pot. [/edit]

I like the versatility of the setup. You can get this stove in titanium as well, but the stove is small enough that I'm happy with the heavier stainless version - it doesn't weigh much.

I also have this small folding stoves big brother:

http://www.fireboxstove.com/camp-stoves/5-inch-folding-firebox


But this bigger one is pretty heavy (made of stainless). An awesome stove, just not a lightweight one. I've got the accessories for this larger one too - the grill plate and the boil plate. My typical use for this larger version is on car-camping trips. If we're not going to have a campfire, this stove will sit on the picnic table, fed with scrap wood and bark, and serves as a heater and something to gaze into as you sit around in the dark. Also good for heating your hot chocolate or roasting marshmallows.

But for a get home bag, I'd recommend the small version at the top of this post.


SO SO SO WANT!!! No funds right now but some day. laugh

EDIT: My hubby works with sheet metal and is determined that he can make something similar to this. I'm really hoping he's right. wink




Bacpacjac, if your hubby works with sheet steel this might be a better model to work from, five flat plates with tabs and no hinges. I've been look at these myself though I don't know if there's any thing similar available in your neck of the woods.

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#278187 - 12/24/15 04:20 PM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: Cauldronborn2]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 827
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
U.S. Amazon has it here:
http://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Pocket-Mic...ro+Stove+EDCBox but the reviews are not so good, mostly because of it's really small size.

A larger one of the same type but different maker, also from 5 flats of steel, is available (but only one review): http://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Pocket-Sto...ro+Stove+EDCBox, but it looks more practical.

Access to sheet metal, tools and time and you could work either one of these up fairly easily I think.
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#278193 - 12/24/15 10:31 PM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: bacpacjac]
acropolis5 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 335
Bacpacjac, I noticed from reading ur first post, the possible use of the stove indoors. Do u know whether an Esbit stove is safe to use indoors, with a window open just a bir?

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#278198 - 12/25/15 10:08 AM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: acropolis5]
M_a_x Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1002
Loc: Germany
In Germany they recommend to use it only in well ventilated areas and suggest to refrain from using it indoors. I take this as itīs not considered save to do so.
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#278199 - 12/25/15 11:15 AM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: M_a_x]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 319
Originally Posted By: M_a_x
In Germany they recommend to use it only in well ventilated areas and suggest to refrain from using it indoors. I take this as itīs not considered save to do so.


There is a lot of truth in this,
caution is warranted,
burning produces carbon monoxide,
so you need to ventilate,
have stove on stable surface,
away from curtains ,
away from pets,
don't leave fire unattended,
don't drink alcohol or stuff like that,
keep children away from stove,
use carbon monoxide / smoke detector,
have fire extinguisher ready,
...
there is risk to everything
and the cheapest legal pants smile
is to say don't take the risk at all
easier than convincing people knowitalls to take precautions
but if you take a few simple precautions risk can be minimized




This is what a book on wood/coal... cookstoves has to say about ventilation
Originally Posted By: http://www.pciaonline.org/files/Test-Results-Cookstove-Performance.pdf#page=69

Figure 20 - CO and average PM level reduction by ventilation
Closed Kitchen CO Average (ppm) 54
Hole in Roof CO Average (ppm) 18 reduction of 67%
Window and Hole in Roof CO Average (ppm) 14 reduction of 75%
Door Open CO Average (ppm) 1 reduction of 97%

Kitchen Dimensions:
10 ft (3 m) wide X 8 ft (2.4 m) deep X 6 ft (1.8 m) high X
8 ft (2.4 m) peak
Door: 2 ft (0.6 m) X 6 ft (1.8 m)
Window: 11 in (0.28 m) X 14 in (0.36 m)
Hole in Roof: 9.8 in (0.25 m) X 7.9 in (0.2 m)
Stove height: 2 ft. (0.6 m)

Book also has a Cookstove Safety Ratings worksheet


This is short preview of article that takes a closer look emissions from camping stoves in a tent sized space

Stoves, Tents and Carbon Monoxide - Deadly or Not? Part 5: Laboratory Measurements for Solid Fuels - Backpacking Light

I don't expect any surprises smile
burning produces emissions,
too much fuel burns more dirty,
pot sitting in flames produces more emissions,
...
you need to ventilate

update:
Originally Posted By: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning#Signs_and_symptoms

Concentration Symptoms
35 ppm (0.0035%) Headache and dizziness within six to eight hours of constant exposure
100 ppm (0.01%) Slight headache in two to three hours
200 ppm (0.02%) Slight headache within two to three hours; loss of judgment
400 ppm (0.04%) Frontal headache within one to two hours
800 ppm (0.08%) Dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 min; insensible within 2 hours
1,600 ppm (0.16%) Headache, increased heart rate, dizziness, and nausea within 20 min; death in less than 2 hours
3,200 ppm (0.32%) Headache, dizziness and nausea in five to ten minutes. Death within 30 minutes.
6,400 ppm (0.64%) Headache and dizziness in one to two minutes. Convulsions, respiratory arrest, and death in less than 20 minutes.
12,800 ppm (1.28%) Unconsciousness after 2–3 breaths. Death in less than three minutes.


Originally Posted By: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning#Causes

Concentration Source
0.1 ppm Natural atmosphere level (MOPITT)
0.5 to 5 ppm Average level in homes
5 to 15 ppm Near properly adjusted gas stoves in homes
100 to 200 ppm Exhaust from automobiles in the Mexico City central area
5,000 ppm Exhaust from a home wood fire
7,000 ppm Undiluted warm car exhaust without a catalytic converter
30,000 ppm Afterdamp following an explosion in a coal mine







Edited by EMPnotImplyNuclear (12/25/15 11:32 AM)

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#278200 - 12/26/15 12:45 AM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: Cauldronborn2]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3597
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Cauldronborn2


Bacpacjac, if your hubby works with sheet steel this might be a better model to work from, five flat plates with tabs and no hinges. I've been look at these myself though I don't know if there's any thing similar available in your neck of the woods.



Thanks so much, Cauldronborn2! Forwarded to bacpachubby! wink There doesn't seem to be anybody local selling these so we're working on building one. (Well, he's building and I'm helping with the design requests.)

I found this simple mod for the Esbit stove that looks like it will work well, and we just happen to have the materials on the work bench waiting for a project. wink It's not as elaborate as a firebox/bushbox stove but it's a good start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=difj5K4C7IU
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#278201 - 12/26/15 01:02 AM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: bacpacjac]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3597
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Christmas Cook Kit Update: I'm not sure if Santa helped or hindered my cook kit, but...

The 16 oz stainless steel mug and lid that I kept alcohol stove in has been replaced by two Sea to Summit X Mug collapsible cups. (The stove is now wrapped in a windscreen/pot stand inside a padded carrier that's just big enough to include a 2 oz bottle of fuel and a mini BIC.) The cups are 16 oz each, like the SS mug, but collapse down and fit inside my GSI kettle, along with the Esbit stove (with some hexi tabs inside), a BIC, and my folding cup. He also brought each of the kids a new LMF spork, which replaces their heavier and bulkier plastic spoons.

Brew kit for three - just what I wanted. I ditched a cooking vessel, but I still have two so I didn't need it. I added the extra cup that I wanted, which probably added a few ounces, but I lose an ounce or two with the spoon swap.

It's an addiction. Thank you for that! wink
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