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#277768 - 11/30/15 08:56 PM Jacket or coat
TeacherRO Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2396
The usefulness of a a basic jacket is amazing. even a simple raincoat holds heat, protects from insects and repels rain -- and in a bright color helps get you found.

I keep a spare in my pack and in my car.

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#277772 - 11/30/15 10:10 PM Re: Jacket or coat [Re: TeacherRO]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 830
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
When I travel on airlines, I always wear a (dress) sport coat, usually the common blue Blazer. I like the extra pockets it gives me; more space to carry things which is always useful. Some brands are designed for travel, with even more pockets. Also, I have found that this simple garment seems to, how to say it, put me in a different group than many of the other travelers, and get me better service. At least so it seems. (And a Tie helps also.)

So I stuff my coat's pockets with all sort of useful things and don't have to put all that stuff in my already stuffed carry-on.
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#277774 - 11/30/15 10:46 PM Re: Jacket or coat [Re: TeacherRO]
Montanero Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1482
Loc: North Carolina
For traveling in a business suit, I generally wear a nice wool overcoat. For more casual dress, I wear a wool duffel coat. I still carry (all year) a light rain coat that can go over the wool coats. I usually carry a light merino wool base layer all year also.

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#277776 - 11/30/15 10:51 PM Re: Jacket or coat [Re: Montanero]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6857
Loc: southern Cal
For years I have included the lightest weight hooded jacket I could find in my pack, even when it was slightly redundant. Currently I carry a Houdini (Patagonia).

I tend to prefer bright colors (red!) and so the ability to aid potential searchers is a handy rationalization. Dull colors do make the searchers job just that much more difficult.


Edited by hikermor (11/30/15 10:56 PM)
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#277779 - 11/30/15 11:27 PM Re: Jacket or coat [Re: TeacherRO]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2027
Loc: NE Illinois
Do keep in mind that synthetic fibers are killers in the very unlikely event of a fire.

Just another reason I prefer to wear cotton while traveling on planes.

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#277780 - 12/01/15 12:01 AM Re: Jacket or coat [Re: KenK]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6857
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: KenK
Do keep in mind that synthetic fibers are killers in the very unlikely event of a fire.

Just another reason I prefer to wear cotton while traveling on planes.


I generally whip my ropes and cordage by melting the cut tips, so I know that hot, melting nylon is hot and nasty, not the thing you want in contact with one's delicate skin, but...

Killers? If things are hot enough to melt nylon, I would think the victim has even bigger problems. Are there documented cases of deaths caused only by melting synthetics- no other contributing conditions (like scorched lungs?)?

I can see the point when flying, especially with undergarments. But then, I find flying less and less satisfactory or cost effective, even if I can keep my shoes on for TSA.
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#277784 - 12/01/15 12:35 AM Re: Jacket or coat [Re: hikermor]
Jolt Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/15/10
Posts: 90
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Originally Posted By: KenK
Do keep in mind that synthetic fibers are killers in the very unlikely event of a fire.

Just another reason I prefer to wear cotton while traveling on planes.


I generally whip my ropes and cordage by melting the cut tips, so I know that hot, melting nylon is hot and nasty, not the thing you want in contact with one's delicate skin, but...

Killers? If things are hot enough to melt nylon, I would think the victim has even bigger problems. Are there documented cases of deaths caused only by melting synthetics- no other contributing conditions (like scorched lungs?)?

I can see the point when flying, especially with undergarments. But then, I find flying less and less satisfactory or cost effective, even if I can keep my shoes on for TSA.


Well, in any case I think it is safe to say that synthetics are likely to make a person's injuries unnecessarily worse in the event of a fire. I too avoid wearing them when flying…cotton at least won't melt, but wool is naturally flame resistant and is even better so I wear as much of that as is practical for the conditions. Check out this demonstration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvCh1QIHbmk
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The rhythm is gonna get you...and if it's v-tach or v-fib, the results will be shocking!

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#277786 - 12/01/15 12:47 AM Re: Jacket or coat [Re: Jolt]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6857
Loc: southern Cal
Are there any data regarding synthetics/fire/trauma? Obviously, there is potential, but just how much of a real world problem is it?
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#277788 - 12/01/15 03:17 AM Re: Jacket or coat [Re: hikermor]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2068
Loc: Colorado
I would think that for melted synthetics to be an issue, you'd have to be in direct contact with flame to ignite them. If it's hot enough for them to spontaneously combust without flame contact, well, you will probably have already spontaneously combusted yourself. And if you're in an aircraft disaster where you're in direct contact with flames, that doesn't bode well for your survival in the first place. Most of the folks in aircraft disasters die from the smoke or blunt trauma from the impact. For the unlucky ones who who had not only smoke and physical trauma to deal with, but flames too, I dare say they were probably toast from the get-go. Even if they were wearing cotton.

But I wear cotton most of the time anyway. Not because I fear melting, but because it's more comfortable.

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#277789 - 12/01/15 03:21 AM Re: Jacket or coat [Re: hikermor]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 333
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Are there any data regarding synthetics/fire/trauma? Obviously, there is potential, but just how much of a real world problem is it?


It seems mostly it has to do with risk of fire/explosion, if its higher than household risk (campfire), then recommendation is wear fire resistant clothing (including underpants)

I vaguely recalls seeing surgeons removing melted underpants , maybe on history channel, maybe on tv show ... but it looks like they describe, a second skin made of plastic that needs to be excised



Marine Corps News Room: Popular clothing off-limits to Marines in Iraq
Originally Posted By: http://www.marine-corps-news.com/2006/04/popular_clothing_offlimits_to.htm
For these reasons, Marines have been limited to wearing clothing made with these materials only while on the relatively safe forward operating bases and camps where encounters with fires and explosions are relatively low.


Industrial Flash Fire and Burn Injury Fundamentals with an Instrumented Manikin Demonstration of Protective Clothing Performance

CORDURA® Brand - New Lightweight CORDURA® Baselayer Brand Fabric
Originally Posted By: http://www.cordura.com/en/tactical_news_press_rel/news_baselayer.html

In addition to its No Melt, No Drip thermal feature
The CORDURA® brand Baselayer fabric is constructed with a unique blend of
INVISTA T420 nylon 66 fiber and cotton to help protect soldiers when
exposed to heat in flash fire situations such as IEDs or vehicle fires.
The fabric insulates the body under heat threat, and when exposed to these
high temperatures, the fabric forms gels and chars around the cotton
creating an entirely new fabric structure with a higher ignition
resistance that does not drip or melt onto the skin underneath like
polyester.


Electric Power eTool: Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) - Flame-Resistant (FR) Clothing

USAF Flying Safety magazine
Originally Posted By: http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/lps11992/2002/fsmnov02.pdf
air pocket will provide you with an addi-
tional buffer from the searing heat of a
fire that may save your life.
Finally, one very important considera-
tion when donning your flight suit is
what you wear underneath it. Certain
fabrics can melt at temperatures as low
as 300 degrees F, whereas Nomex can
withstand temperatures as high as 700
degrees F for a very short period of time.
So, wearing synthetic underwear, such as
polypropylene, under the flight suit
could be an invitation to pain in the event
of a fire! Any product with polyester will
behave in a similar manner and can
adhere to your skin before the fire will
burn through your flight suit, if tempera-
tures are high enough. Yet, even so, some
of our winter undergarments are made of
polypro or other synthetic materials
because they are better at keeping us
warm because of their property of draw-
ing moisture away from the body. So, the
choice between warmth and ultimate
safety throws us a curve. The bottom line
is that you have a choice as to what you
wear under your flight suit, so choose
wisely. Definitely avoid wearing poly-
ester "work-out" clothes under your
flight suit, and choose cotton clothing to
wear when conditions permit. This could
reduce the seriousness of burn injuries
while increasing personal comfort.


0851–2348P–MTDC Tests of Undergarments Exposed to Fire

camp fire Utah boy, badly burned when fleece PJs caught fire, slowly recovering | The Salt Lake Tribune

calfire shelter not deployable (melted shut) Burned Calif. Crew Found Shelters Melted | Firehouse

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