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#277204 - 10/22/15 03:34 AM Re: Coal Caching [Re: benjammin]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1418
Loc: Nothern Ontario
For a few years when I was young, we had an old house on some farm acreage where the house was heated with an even older coal stove.

I recall having to shovel the coal out in the shed and fill the coal bin in the house and that was dirty and dusty work. And not to mention, the dust was hard on the lungs. Also the fumes from that old coal stove was terrible and to this day, even a charcoal BBQ harshly reminds me of that coal stove we had.

Good burn quality coal for residential use is hard to come by in many areas here but I would never use it even if good quality was available as there are many other cleaner and safer (health wise) sources of energy to choose from.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#277231 - 10/22/15 09:59 PM Re: Coal Caching [Re: AKSAR]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
From a scale of use perspective, I was thinking of portability of a couple bags such as in the back of the pickup. Instant campfire just about anywhere I would want to make one, even if it isn't the cleanest burning option. Along those lines, it would be a stable fuel source scalable by transport mode for general combustion at least as good as other typically portable types. Once at a retreat location, I would plan on relying on whatever fuel source is in place. But just to get there, even a 5 or 10 lb bag of coal could be a significant advantage for bug out. What would be an equivalent btu/lb load in propane, butane, gasoline, etc., packaged in what form, and in what method would it be utilized?

I can see some other marginal advantages to coal as a portable fuel source.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#277240 - 10/23/15 12:43 AM Re: Coal Caching [Re: benjammin]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 382
Originally Posted By: benjammin
But just to get there, even a 5 or 10 lb bag of coal could be a significant advantage for bug out. What would be an equivalent btu/lb load in propane, butane, gasoline, etc., packaged in what form, and in what method would it be utilized?


F15-lb Propane (38 lb net weight) 324,377 BTU_IT / $48.22 = 6,727 BTU_IT/$
to boil 5 liters takes 64 grams propane, and simmer for 45min takes 75grams, for a total of 139 grams
propane 6804 grams /139 grams = 48.9496... = 49 MEALS
propane 6804 grams /139 grams = 48.9496... = 49 MEALS
$28.25/49 = 0.588775510204082 $ a meal

http://centurycamping.com/stoves/trail/
4262 Single Burner Stove With Carry Bag
Uses 16.4 oz. propane cylinder (not included).
464.932 grams / 139 = 3.3448345323741 meals
$2.97-$3.50 Coleman Propane Fuel, 16.4 oz / 1lb
about $1 dollar a meal


Embers 16.6 lbs. Charcoal Briquets (9000 BTU/lb ) 149,400 BTU_IT / $5.99 = 24,941 BTU_IT/$

Mali Charcoal (bucket enclosure, cone grate, air control door)
Fuel Used to Boil 406 g
Fuel Used to Simmer 268 g +
TOTAL - 674 g
16.6lb = 7,529.642grams
7529.642 / 674 = 11.1715756676558 meals
5.99 / 11 = 0.544545454545455 $ meal

in a more improved stove (insulation, porskirt)
its possible for ~200 grams total (or better)
which would be 37.64821 meals, for 0.159104509882409$ per meal

3lb for $15.98 6 gal. Galvanized Steel Round Trash Can with Locking Lid
to improvise a stove
or a few paint cans hensoncf04 160 grams of charcoal boils and simmers 5 liters/CF04 Stove | Improved Biomass Cooking Stoves
7529.642 / 160 = 47.0602625 meals
$5.99 / 37 = $ 0.161891891891892 meal


Compare to this past winter 40 lb of premium wood pellets for 342,000 BTU / $4.98 = 68,675 BTU/$ dollar
woodgas camp stove (fanpower)
Fuel Used to Boil 235 g
Fuel Used to Simmer 224 g +
TOTAL - 459 g
40 lb pellets / 459 grams
18144 grams / 459 grams = 39 meals




with solid fuels you have no risk of leakage/explosion ... the stove you bring is adaptable to local fuels...

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#277260 - 10/24/15 04:18 AM Re: Coal Caching [Re: EMPnotImplyNuclear]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Wood pellets average 8,000 btu/lb (your values yield 8,850 btu/lb. Close enough for me).

Coal average yield 10,000 btu/lb.

I'd say that is more portable. It requires more technique perhaps than a propane stove, but these skills can be learned.

Looks like I need to go pick up some coal next week.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#277268 - 10/25/15 05:29 AM Re: Coal Caching [Re: benjammin]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 382
Originally Posted By: benjammin
Wood pellets average 8,000 btu/lb (your values yield 8,850 btu/lb. Close enough for me).

Coal average yield 10,000 btu/lb.

I'd say that is more portable. It requires more technique perhaps than a propane stove, but these skills can be learned.

Looks like I need to go pick up some coal next week.

What kind of coal is 10,000 btu/lb?

smile thats numbers I gathered last year from whatever kind home depot was selling ...

Hard Coal (anthracite) 13,000 Btu/lb 26,000,000 Btu/ton
Soft Coal (bituminous) 12,000 Btu/lb 24,000,000 Btu/ton
Coal (Lignite) 15.00 8,000

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#277283 - 10/26/15 01:26 AM Re: Coal Caching [Re: EMPnotImplyNuclear]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I was using a conservative number, but yours makes my case even moreso.

From an industrial perspective, coal may not be ideal for a few regulatory reasons. But from an individual consumer position, especially in terms of subsistence and/or survival, coal makes a lot of practical sense.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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