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#276092 - 08/05/15 02:41 PM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: UTAlumnus]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: UTAlumnus
I agree. It all depends on the situation. If it's over a small region, you're right it may be better to be elsewhere. If it's national or worldwide, you may not be able to do any better elsewhere depending on the cause.


Your point is well taken. Immigration may well make things worse, or just be an exchange one set of survival challenges for another. I suppose the other main option is toughing it out and trying to be one of those who help to rebuild and restore, which ties into Tom L's insightful comment about long-term survival being a community thing.

As to emigration, I note that many Jews and others who wisely fled antebellum Nazi Germany for other European nations soon found themselves victims of the Nazis nonetheless, as Germany overran those countries in WWII. Interestingly, some ex-Confederates after the Civil War and ex-Nazis after WWII were able to persevere in what might be termed survival enclaves in South America, and surviving European Jewish emigres helped found the modern state Of Israel. Today, some Central American nations host large emigre communities of ex-pat Americans and others. It pays to choose your destination early, but carefully.

In a global catastrophe, I suppose those already dedicated to pursuing a maximally self-sufficient and off-grid lifestyle may find themselves in a final battle for survival with those who were able to use extreme wealth and/or power to insulate themselves from the consequences of total collapse until near the end. shocked The world of science fiction often explores these possibilities and provides many interesting takes on both the causes of, and the means of survival in, a global catastrophe.

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#276093 - 08/05/15 02:57 PM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: nursemike]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: nursemike

The consistent pattern of my survival planning behavior Is that I prepare for threats that allow me to do things I like to do anyway.
...
And I get to play with stuff that I like.

So, prepare for disaster exactly as you wish to do so. ...


I agree. Some people, who I respectfully term "survival hobbyists," just intrinsically enjoy all the planning, activities, and skill building and practice that are related to survival preparation, and a subset of those go on to find that working for maximal self-sufficiency and off-grid living is an intrinsically rewarding lifestyle.

Moreover, many of the rewards come without having to face some sort of actual disaster. Many preps are just as useful and convenient for resolving the petty annoyances and minor to moderate problems that occur in everyday life. Many also enhance enjoyable hobbies and family activities like camping, backpacking, shooting sports and gardening. Some also help with entirely personal disasters, as well. For example, having six month's or a year's food supply on hand would really help stretch the family budget in the event of an unexpected job loss. Being ready for "the Big One" means being ready for most of the little ones, too.


Edited by JeffMc (08/05/15 03:09 PM)

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#276094 - 08/05/15 03:05 PM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: Jeanette_Isabelle
Realistically all I can prepare for is a three-month disruption. Without my medications, ...


If you keep a three month supply of your essential Rx medications on hand, you are way ahead of most people, in my experience. One of the more difficult problems in disaster response is often supplying people with needed Rx meds when there are no open pharmacies. Many insurance plans offer mail-order pharmacy services. Usually, they refill a three month supply at a time, as opposed to one month at a time for retail pharmacies, and often are less expensive, as well.

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#276096 - 08/05/15 03:32 PM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: JeffMc]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2458
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: JeffMc
If you keep a three month supply of your essential Rx medications on hand, you are way ahead of most people, in my experience. One of the more difficult problems in disaster response is often supplying people with needed Rx meds when there are no open pharmacies.

That just means I'll live three months longer.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
“Trust me, this is not gonna end well!” — Pleakley, Lilo & Stitch

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#276098 - 08/05/15 03:59 PM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
In most "ordinary" disasters like earthquakes and hurricanes, local pharmacies begin to re-open within days, and tend to receive priority assistance in doing so because of their importance to their communities. Within a few weeks, there are usually a large fraction of the normal number operating in or on the periphery of the affected area. So a three month supply is usually going to prove more than sufficient.

Of course, in the event of a large meteor strike, alien invasion, thermonuclear war, or the like, it may take slightly longer for your local pharmacy to get fully back to normal.

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#276099 - 08/05/15 04:12 PM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: chaosmagnet]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 869
Loc: wellington, fl
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
I find myself, respectfully, not entirely in agreement with nursemike. While my knowledge and planning are necessarily imperfect, I try to have a reasonably good grip on the most likely disasters where I live (Large Amounts of snow, damaging weather, loss of utilities) and I've prepared reasonably for same. I've tried to assemble a fairly eclectic variety of knowledge, skills and equipment for bringing my family through the most likely scenarios. For myself, a positive mental attitude comes from having built these things up and the experience of some potentially disastrous situations.

Could I do more? Sure. I'd love to lose some weight, train for and complete a Goruck Challenge, get WEMT certified, and just plain go hiking more often. But for all that I spend more time shooting than I strictly need to, my plans aren't entirely arbitrary.


Well said, sir.

I concur that I am generally not arbitrary in choosing which disasters are likely. I disagree in the sense that choosing to prepare for disasters is an arbitrary decision, if I consider statistics regarding mortality . I am far more likely to die a respiratory, oncological or cardiovascular death than a trauma death. The most dangerous places I visit may be the kitchen and bathroom. My treasured collection of edc and psk items will serve me poorly in these cases: better I should install floor level telephones in these rooms. I am going to the gym, losing weight, and minding my diet for the first time in 6 decades, but I still prefer looking at gun magazines more than looking at safe bathroom design magazines. Which ain't entirely rational.

Perhaps it is best not to take this survival stuff too seriously. The death rate has not changed: it is still one per person. There are no data to suggest that survivalists live longer than other folks. Perhaps the key to survival is to be part of a non-fragile community, implying that time spent at church is more valuable than time spent at the shooting range, or that donating supplies to the food banks might be more valuable than storing supplies in my redoubt.
_________________________
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#276102 - 08/05/15 04:45 PM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: nursemike]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
Excellent points, Nursemike!

Expanding on your theme, we are better served tending to the real basics of survival before investing much time, money and energy in what we typically think of as survival preps.

A gym membership that you actually use would certainly qualify as a "real" survival "basic." Smoke detectors, fire extinguishers and first aid kits also make the cut. I've seen a lot of over-worn tires on cars involved in injury accidents, and many dangerous house fires caused by homes and appliances that weren't up to code and in good repair.

It would also be wise to invest in adequate life, disability, and homeowner's or renter's insurance before investing in traditional survival supplies beyond the minimums. Many people have no disability insurance at all, and many carry the minimum legal or grossly inadequate liability policy limits on their homeowner's and especially auto insurance. These omissions can inflict real hardship on you and your family, and cover harms far more likely to occur than a major disaster.

They are totally boring, sometimes expensive, and nowhere near as enjoyable as, let's say a really cool new firearm, but you're also far more likely to be really glad you had them someday.

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#276103 - 08/05/15 05:06 PM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: JeffMc]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Originally Posted By: nursemike
Perhaps it is best not to take this survival stuff too seriously. The death rate has not changed: it is still one per person. There are no data to suggest that survivalists live longer than other folks. Perhaps the key to survival is to be part of a non-fragile community, implying that time spent at church is more valuable than time spent at the shooting range, or that donating supplies to the food banks might be more valuable than storing supplies in my redoubt.


and

Originally Posted By: JeffMc
A gym membership that you actually use would certainly qualify as a "real" survival "basic." Smoke detectors, fire extinguishers and first aid kits also make the cut. I've seen a lot of over-worn tires on cars involved in injury accidents, and many dangerous house fires caused by homes and appliances that weren't up to code and in good repair.

It would also be wise to invest in adequate life, disability, and homeowner's or renter's insurance before investing in traditional survival supplies beyond the minimums. Many people have no disability insurance at all, and many carry the minimum legal or grossly inadequate liability policy limits on their homeowner's and especially auto insurance. These omissions can inflict real hardship on you and your family, and cover harms far more likely to occur than a major disaster.


Well said, couldn't agree more.

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#276106 - 08/05/15 10:05 PM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2458
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Let me address other comments made. I have a hobby that will come in handy in a disaster. I buy off-the-shelf first aid kits (medium size or larger) and customize them.

When I lived in Dallas, I had to have stuff on my person whenever I left the house for the possibility of overnighting it somewhere was real. Nothing happens here so I got out of preparedness mode.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
“Trust me, this is not gonna end well!” — Pleakley, Lilo & Stitch

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#276109 - 08/07/15 03:26 AM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
I thought that your thread was a good concept.

as far as "fleeing town goes" ... ONLY if you are VERY certain that you can get a jump on the crowd. The worst place to be - is stuck on some freeway in half-a-million cars that are not moving. If you decide to FLEE, get out super early, know your escape route, and keep running a long way.

One really essential item in this discussion - what to do about essential meds. I have one necessary medicine myself. I have gone thru major hassles trying to get my doctor and the pharmacy to give me an extra supply. the "system" is just not geared towards giving people extra supplies of meds. I finally convinced them to give me a 3-month subscription. and this is for a med that is pretty harmless, totally non-addictive, and necessary.

I dunno WHAT people are going to do in a real crisis. I am somewhat happy by the thought that the "folks in charge" realize that this is a big deal. it is !! but it beats me how they will get meds to millions of people.

Pete

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