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#272077 - 10/07/14 12:27 AM Re: EBOV versus Pandemic Flu Preparedness [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
This virus must be incredibly contagious, probably airborne...

We would be seeing far more cases, even here in the US, if Ebola were a true airborne disease (since Dr Kent Brantly first set foot back in the US). However, it is true that Ebola is very contagious in the sense that it only takes 1-10 virus particles to infect someone (under "infectious dose" section).

As the WSJ reports, this Spanish nurse followed all the infection control protocols and only had contact with the patient twice--once while he was alive and once after he was deceased. Like I said earlier, a lot of people in healthcare are going to be grappling with the implications of this incident.

Speaking of airborne transmission, here is a good explanation in Scientific American about what is involved when people talk about Ebola mutating to become a true airborne disease and how there is little evolutionary pressure for it to do so. The risk of such a drastic mutation appears very low because the fundamental nature of Ebola and how it attacks the body would need to change to accommodate such a change.

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#272078 - 10/07/14 12:59 AM Re: EBOV versus Pandemic Flu Preparedness [Re: Arney]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Quote:
We would be seeing far more cases, even here in the US


Brother Miguel Pajares died on the 12th August, about 47 days ago. This time period is well outside the 2-21 day period quoted by the authorities.
The authorities also have indicated that the Ebola can also only be contagious when symptomatic. I do not believe this either. I also suspect that the contagious period may well even be infectious for days/weeks before before becoming symptomatic.

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#272079 - 10/07/14 02:12 AM Re: EBOV versus Pandemic Flu Preparedness [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
Brother Miguel Pajares died on the 12th August, about 47 days ago.

The WSJ article I referenced above says Brother Manuel García Viejo--not Miguel Pajares--died on September 25th and the nurse developed a fever on September 30th. I don't think we're talking about the same person.

Edit: A different WSJ article mentions Pijares and that this nurse tended to him, too. So this nurse was exposed to two different Ebola patients.

Since Pijares' death is well outside the three-week maximum incubation period, it does not seem to make sense to link the nurse's infection to him versus the much more recent patient, which is squarely within the time window we would expect.


Edited by Arney (10/07/14 01:25 PM)
Edit Reason: Add new info

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#272087 - 10/07/14 03:26 PM Re: EBOV versus Pandemic Flu Preparedness [Re: Arney]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
Since Pijares' death is well outside the three-week maximum incubation period, it does not seem to make sense to link the nurse's infection to him versus the much more recent patient, which is squarely within the time window we would expect.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29519370

Three other individuals are also suspected of Ebola infection along with the nurses confirmed case. It does get worse. The nurse when feeling unwell i.e. symptomatic, asked for an Ebola test multiple times but was refused and was told to go on Holiday, only to be tested 6 days later after before becoming progressively more ill.

Considering the PPE kit and the protection barrier procedures undertaken then either the nurse was either infected 47 days ago with very few virus particles or received a heavy dose of virus 12-13 days ago.

Either way the policy of bringing Ebola infected individuals from west Africa needs to be halted even without getting into the criminal negligence issues being carried out by the Government authorities.

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#272089 - 10/07/14 05:19 PM Re: EBOV versus Pandemic Flu Preparedness [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
The nurse when feeling unwell i.e. symptomatic, asked for an Ebola test multiple times but was refused and was told to go on Holiday, only to be tested 6 days later after before becoming progressively more ill.

This sounds so unbelievable that I'm inclined to think that this is uncomfirmed reporting by El Mundo, but if it is an accurate description of what happened, that is inexcusable. A health professional who had direct contact with not one, but two, Ebola patients suspects that they are infected, and is repeatedly refused testing?

This Guardian article quotes the El Mundo report, and then adds something else:
Quote:
El Mundo reported that it was the nurse who asked to be tested for Ebola, having to insist repeatedly on being tested before it was done on Monday.

While staff at the Alcorcón hospital were waiting for the test results, the nurse remained in a bed in the emergency room, separated only by curtains from other patients, hospital staff told El Mundo. Their version of events clashes with that of health authorities, who have said the patient was isolated from the first moment.

If this second description of how the nurse was "isolated" in the ER while she waited for her test results is true, then I suppose the bit about refusing to test her in the first place doesn't sound so far fetched. I really hope that this is not actually what happened so I'll keep an eye out for clarifications.

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#272090 - 10/07/14 05:57 PM Re: EBOV versus Pandemic Flu Preparedness [Re: Arney]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5170
Loc: SOCAL
Having lived in Spain for a few years, I do not doubt the El Mundo report -- but that's just a biased opinion.

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#272091 - 10/07/14 06:06 PM Re: EBOV versus Pandemic Flu Preparedness [Re: Arney]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

The astonishment continues. eek

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...g-assitant.html

Quote:
Dallas Ebola victim's stepdaughter - who took him to hospital as he was 'vomiting wildly' - is given all clear to return to work as a NURSING ASSISTANT


There should be a 40 day minimum quarantine.

http://pmj.bmj.com/content/81/955/315.full.pdf

Quote:
PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURES
Even in the 14th century the health authorities
in northern Italy had established the importance
of a 40 day quarantine period, which became the
gold standard for continental Europe for the next
300 years. The 40 day quarantine was not
adopted in England until the 16th century and
even then it was changed to 30 days only to find
that this was completely ineffective, whereupon
this regulation was speedily rescinded.

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#272100 - 10/08/14 03:53 PM Re: EBOV versus Pandemic Flu Preparedness [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5170
Loc: SOCAL

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#272118 - 10/08/14 11:28 PM Re: EBOV versus Pandemic Flu Preparedness [Re: Russ]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Sheriff’s Deputy Who Was Forced to Enter Ebola Apartment Falls Ill

http://www.prisonplanet.com/breaking-she...-falls-ill.html

Frisco officials say risk is low that sheriff’s deputy who visited Duncan’s apartment has Ebola

http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2014/...ic-duncan.html/

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#272153 - 10/11/14 06:54 PM Re: EBOV versus Pandemic Flu Preparedness [Re: Meadowlark]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5170
Loc: SOCAL
This is an interesting Scientific American article: Ebola Spread Shows Flaws in Protective Gear and Procedures The nurse in Spain may have contaminated herself when removing her protective gear.
Meanwhile the guys who cleaned the Dallas apartment wore full-face respirators and Level B Saranac suits, reportedly one level above CDC recommendations.

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