Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#267057 - 02/01/14 05:48 PM caught in a snow storm - In Hawaii
TeacherRO Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2471
Hiker caught in a 2 day storm in Hawaii

Two things:
1. Don't leave your pack.
2. register with the rangers/leave a note
3. Even in Hawaii

Top
#267060 - 02/01/14 06:39 PM Re: caught in a snow storm - In Hawaii [Re: TeacherRO]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7346
Loc: southern Cal
In the western US, weather varies with altitude, not latitude. Within 45 minutes of downtown Tucson, AZ (el 2,500) you can reach a ski resort (elev 85,00) in the Santa Catalina Mountains. So at 13,000 feet in Hawaii, it can be winter.

What surprises me is the apparently flaccid SAR response by the NPS, especially since the hiker had registered. More information night clear up this - the usual cautions about drawing conclusions from second hand, sketchy media reports apply here.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

Top
#267063 - 02/01/14 07:20 PM Re: caught in a snow storm - In Hawaii [Re: hikermor]
AKSAR Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1198
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: hikermor
In the western US, weather varies with altitude, not latitude. .....
Ahem, I think you meant "......varies with altitude and latitude", didn't you? However, the altitude effect certainly does tend to change more dramatically in short distances. smile
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

Top
#267064 - 02/01/14 07:52 PM Re: caught in a snow storm - In Hawaii [Re: AKSAR]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7346
Loc: southern Cal
Yeah, latitude is still a factor - i definitely wasn't clear - for a given spot (say in AZ) your altitude is a more important factor than latitude. You have to go pretty far north to achieve the same climate that you can reach within ten miles by climbing.

I understand that a lot of Alaska empties out in February or so, heading down to the Big Island, so latitude does count....


Edited by hikermor (02/01/14 08:00 PM)
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

Top
#267065 - 02/01/14 09:17 PM Re: caught in a snow storm - In Hawaii [Re: TeacherRO]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
As I recall, for every 1000 foot increase in altitude, temperature in F. goes down 5.5 degrees until you reach the dew point, when it then goes down 3.5 degrees per 1000 feet.

This is a rule of thumb and can be affected by other conditions.

Still, going from sea level to 13,000 feet could drop the temperature as much as 71.5 degrees, ignoring the dew point. So that nice beach day of 72 could go to near zero.

You will need something more than that Hawaiian shirt. . .
_________________________
"Better is the enemy of good enough."

Top
#267066 - 02/01/14 09:37 PM Re: caught in a snow storm - In Hawaii [Re: hikermor]
AKSAR Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1198
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I understand that a lot of Alaska empties out in February or so, heading down to the Big Island, so latitude does count....
Yes, if one has the financial latitude to travel, then a trip to Hawaii is nice in the winter. smile

It is all a matter of degree....


Edited by AKSAR (02/01/14 09:54 PM)
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

Top
#267067 - 02/01/14 09:53 PM Re: caught in a snow storm - In Hawaii [Re: bws48]
AKSAR Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1198
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: bws48
As I recall, for every 1000 foot increase in altitude, temperature in F. goes down 5.5 degrees until you reach the dew point, when it then goes down 3.5 degrees per 1000 feet.

This is a rule of thumb and can be affected by other conditions.
To get all technical on you smile , these are the "dry adiabatic lapse rate" and "wet adiabatic lapse rate" respectively. They are indeed very useful, but as you say they are rules of thumb. Other conditions (for example an inversion) can cause actual temperatures to vary considerably from these. The difference between the wet and dry lapse rates are the cause behind such phenomena as the "Chinook" or "Foehn" winds (AKA "snoweater wind") which sometimes cause dramatic snow melting on the leeward side of mountainous regions.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

Top
#267087 - 02/03/14 12:13 AM Re: caught in a snow storm - In Hawaii [Re: TeacherRO]
BruceZed Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 317
Loc: Canada
Been Caught in Snow Storms in Every Month of the Year, Nice to see it happens in Hawaii! Higher Elevations always means the potential for worse weather and the potential to not see the changing weather until its on top of you. That's why they taught me in Scouts to "Be Prepared"
_________________________
Bruce Zawalsky
Chief Instructor
Boreal Wilderness Institute
boreal.net

Top
#267098 - 02/03/14 03:56 PM Re: caught in a snow storm - In Hawaii [Re: TeacherRO]
JerryFountain Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 418
Loc: St. Petersburg, Florida
A near miss for the light and fast crowd. Glad he made it. Dropping your pack for the summit is a bad idea IMHO.

Respectfully,

Jerry

Top
#267102 - 02/03/14 04:45 PM Re: caught in a snow storm - In Hawaii [Re: JerryFountain]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
A near miss for the light and fast crowd.


Full capability for the 'Fast and Light' crowd is available, which will give very good safety margins in poor weather conditions. Ditching your pack for the final ascent was a very poor decision, which almost cost this climber his life.

For example;

Terra Nova Quasar 30 Pack - 590 grams
NeoAir™ All Season ground pad - 510 grams
Terra Nova Laser Ultra 1 Tent - 590 grams
PHD Minim Ultra Down Sleeping Bag - 670 grams -5°C (23°F)
Jet Boil Sol Titanium Stove - 240 grams
100 gram Butane/Propane gas Cartridge - 160 grams

Total - 2760 grams = 6lbs base pack weight.

You will need a fat heavy Wallet though! laugh


Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (02/03/14 04:47 PM)

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Who's Online
0 registered (), 377 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
manimal, tsfirstaid, Sherette, ohmysan, brenaline
5326 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Doug's pocket survival pak availability
by hikermor
06:58 PM
Hiker missing for two weeks in Zion found alive!
by Phaedrus
02:52 AM
Musical Instruments and Survival Situations?
by dougwalkabout
01:20 AM
Election plans
by Chisel
10/23/20 05:38 PM
First aid kit upgrades
by chaosmagnet
10/22/20 12:02 PM
Slide and Lock Soft Carabiner
by TonyE
10/21/20 02:02 PM
Kessler Syndrome
by Doug_Ritter
10/19/20 04:03 PM
Runner tracked by mountain lion
by Chisel
10/17/20 07:37 AM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.