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#266224 - 12/31/13 05:46 PM Re: USMC FILBE Bergen [Re: boatman]
AKSAR Online   content
Old Hand

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1185
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: benjammin
We fight battles using the latest technology and strategies that were proven obsolete during World War 2.

Command is at least 50 years behind the times.

Originally Posted By: boatman
JBMat makes an excellent point.That is exactly the reason why PSK's evolved in my opinion.I think it is also the reason geurilla fighters and rebels run circles around a "proper" army.They do not follow this dogma.Fast and light,hit and run worked for us during the American revolution.Bureaucracy NEVER learns.....
OK, I've been trying hard to stay out of this one, since in my time as a Marine we were still using "Deuce Gear" (as in 782). I have no experience with Alice Gear let alone FILBE, and therefore can't comment on their relative merits, or lack therof.

However I don't quite buy the implication that the US military is incompetent. In Vietnam, the whole reason the main force NVA came into the fight is because the Viet Cong guerillas had been largely defeated. Regarding the current conflicts, I've been reading a book about the hunt for Osama Bin Laden, and the raid that killed him. Admiral William McRaven (head of JSOC) estimated that by the time they started planning that raid, he had been involved (either on the ground or in a command role) in several thousand successful raids on "guerilla fighters and rebels".

In the OBL raid they flew through the mountains at low level at night, evaded air defense systems, coped with a crashed helicopter, killed OBL, and escaped with his body. They did all this without loosing a single man or killing any civilians outside of OBL's compound. And had Pakistan tried to intervene and the raiders had to fight their way out, they had a quick reaction force staged nearby inside Pakistan, another larger force staged just across the border, and fighter jets ready to take on the Paki air force.

I think our miltary is exceedingly competent.

EDIT 2: McRaven is an admiral, not a general. Typing faster than I was thinking! frown


Edited by AKSAR (12/31/13 06:50 PM)
Edit Reason: Booboo
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#266227 - 12/31/13 08:08 PM Re: USMC FILBE Bergen [Re: bws48]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1004
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
Quote:
For reasons of their own, the French chose to help equip the US rebels with up to date arms and ammo.


IIRC weren't the up to date arms basically the same arms they had been using for hunting with a bayonet lug added?

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#266229 - 12/31/13 08:28 PM Re: USMC FILBE Bergen [Re: hikermor]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
Still, some stuff is pretty good.



Yep, there is some excellent Mil spec gear around. I'm currently looking for a UK supplier for the Sealline ILBE dry Sacks.

http://www.amazon.com/ILBE-Sack-65L-Olive-Retail/dp/B002PWFSK8

For some reason the newer FILBE Bergen doesn't appear to come with a dry compression sack though.

There are lighter Bergens available with larger capacities such as the Mil spec offerings from Norrona, Berghaus, Karrimor, Web Tex and Lowe Alpine but for Military Training purposes used in developing Hill Fitness these do require the addition of multiple LSBT's



But I can't seem to find a NSN number for LSBT (Load Simulator Brick Training)... laugh





Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (01/01/14 12:23 AM)

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#266232 - 12/31/13 09:26 PM Re: USMC FILBE Bergen [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7292
Loc: southern Cal
Question - What is the source for the statement that the pack weights 17 pounds? Granted, it is surely not a lightweight, but seventeen seems excessive - seven might be closer, just looking at part of the video. I'll bet the troops will figure out ways to lighten the load in any event
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#266235 - 12/31/13 10:58 PM Re: USMC FILBE Bergen [Re: hikermor]
AKSAR Online   content
Old Hand

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1185
Loc: Alaska
Before jumping to conclusions on this piece of gear, and by implication on the US military procurement system, I would like to hear comments from a few active duty grunts who have actually used in the field. In the meantime this reviewer has actually tested one and seems to like it.
Quote:
The verdict is this: despite the failure, I like this Rucksack. As far as issue packs go, this is the first one worth a damn since the ALICE. It hauled 75lbs across 15 miles of treacherous mountain trail, and the only thing that hurt afterwards was…well nothing. It distributed the load perfectly, with equal pressure placed on shoulders and lower back.
From the photos, it looks to be a monster, when fully set up.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#266240 - 01/01/14 12:11 AM Re: USMC FILBE Bergen [Re: AKSAR]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7292
Loc: southern Cal
That indeed is a positive review and that is good news. It looks like it is approximately equal to any number of civilian packs and built up for the rigors of military service, except - the pack strap tore off during its initial use (!!!) Perhaps there should be a separate pouch for duct tape and another for baling wire/550cord.

Let's face it - nobody's perfect and glitches do occur. Civilian designers can work these things out with extensive beta testing before putting products on the market.
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#266241 - 01/01/14 12:36 AM Re: USMC FILBE Bergen [Re: AKSAR]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Quote:
From the photos, it looks to be a monster, when fully set up.




Appears to have the same ALICE Stoop problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBakphJvNIs

The FILBE does appear to have a much superior back system (modern) to help distribute the load. Not impressed with the CoG issue though that is clearly shown let alone the weight of Bergen pack.

Quote:
It hauled 75lbs across 15 miles of treacherous mountain trail, and the only thing that hurt afterwards was…well nothing.


ahem, really wink

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#266246 - 01/01/14 05:31 AM Re: USMC FILBE Bergen [Re: hikermor]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Oh, I'm not knocking the Military. It's the bureaucracy that I got problems with.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#266272 - 01/01/14 09:23 PM Re: USMC FILBE Bergen [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
boatman Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 424
Loc: Michigan
Exactly what Benjamin said!

BOATMAN
John

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#266275 - 01/01/14 11:54 PM Re: USMC FILBE Bergen [Re: AKSAR]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
Amen

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