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#264879 - 11/07/13 05:19 AM Is civilization artificial?
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
It just seems that we've only been at it for such a relatively short period of our history, and we never seem to get it right. They all fail sooner or later, and it seems we fall back to our old barbaric ways, more or less, every time.

I wonder if we will ever get past this need to try victimize one another. We seem to understand that it is counterproductive, but we do it anyways. I don't think we will ever be able to get past this until we develop telepathy or empathy or some such, and can feel the pain we inflict on others as if it we were doing it to ourselves. Though in some cases, I doubt that will even be an effective deterrent.

Unfortunate.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#264883 - 11/07/13 06:05 AM Re: Is civilization artificial? [Re: benjammin]
Phaedrus Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2164
Loc: Great Plains
I think civilization is natural for humans, but so are the barbaric ways. For the most part I think when viewed from a distance humans are getting "better" but obviously we're not nearly where I'd like us to be yet. We will probably never get there but I expect we will keep striving to be more than we are now.
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“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” Naguib Mahfouz

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#264892 - 11/07/13 01:50 PM Re: Is civilization artificial? [Re: benjammin]
wileycoyote Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 273
Loc: eastern oregon
its in our nature...

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#264895 - 11/07/13 03:47 PM Re: Is civilization artificial? [Re: benjammin]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1353
there is something inherent in our nature to form ourselves into groups, tribes, gangs. Once we do this, the "other groups" become the enemy, and competition begins. When a particular group wins and dominates the others, it starts a nation. that goes on until another nation dominates instead.

i agree. it really does seem very hard for us to get past this basic wiring in our heads.

Pete2

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#264900 - 11/07/13 06:34 PM Re: Is civilization artificial? [Re: benjammin]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
Competing is in our nature. Even born losers compete at some level. Operating within a team is a more efficient way to win. A nation is a massive team.
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If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#264903 - 11/07/13 08:25 PM Re: Is civilization artificial? [Re: Pete]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 849
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Pete
there is something inherent in our nature to form ourselves into groups, tribes, gangs. Once we do this, the "other groups" become the enemy, and competition begins. When a particular group wins and dominates the others, it starts a nation. that goes on until another nation dominates instead.

i agree. it really does seem very hard for us to get past this basic wiring in our heads.

Pete2


All animals that form societies have outcasts. Also, I think it's inherent in animals that form large, very organized, and cooperative societies to go to war. IIRC, ants also have been know to wage war. Technology just allows us to do it on a larger scale.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#264904 - 11/07/13 09:53 PM Re: Is civilization artificial? [Re: benjammin]
bsmith Offline
day hiker
Addict

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 584
Loc: ventura county, ca
and i wonder if, in the not so distant future, man will have been nothing more than a failed biology experiment, similar to the dinosaurs. except we will cause our own extinction.
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“Everyone should have a horse. It is a great way to store meat without refrigeration. Just don’t ever get on one.”
- ponder's dad

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#264905 - 11/07/13 10:30 PM Re: Is civilization artificial? [Re: bsmith]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 788
Loc: wellington, fl
Originally Posted By: bsmith
and i wonder if, in the not so distant future, man will have been nothing more than a failed biology experiment, similar to the dinosaurs. except we will cause our own extinction.


Humans are communicable disease of planets.
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Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#264906 - 11/07/13 10:35 PM Re: Is civilization artificial? [Re: benjammin]
JBMat Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
Society is artificial to a point. Look at the ever changing rules on what is and isn't "correct". Laws are all basically artificial. If there is a true natural law, it doesn't need to be enumerated, we would know it instinctively. If you look hard enough, there are no natural taboos; in some society everything "bad, evil, Bozo no-no" has been practiced. I stand firm on this, if someone wants to try and find some "natural law/taboo" that's never been broken, have at it. Hints, don't try to argue that any type of murder, cannibalism or incest are naturally taboo, you lose on the point that all have been practiced by past cultures some ritually and religiously.

The larger the group/society, the more rules you have. Never underestimate the power of stupid in large groups. Therefor, the need for rules. It gets interesting when rules change from group to group (e.g. driving laws, England v. the US), reinforcing the idea of artificial rules. Who is right? Does that make the other wrong?

As to competition, the Naked Survivors people prove that the smallest of groups - 2 - has competition to be top dog.

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#264911 - 11/08/13 12:41 AM Re: Is civilization artificial? [Re: nursemike]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1384
To me, this video contains everything you ever need to know about civilization:

Rhett & Link's Redneck Camping Guide

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